The Divorce Chapter

EP42 The Infidelity Industry: What the Ashley Madison Documentary Missed

• Sarah Elizabeth • Episode 42

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This week’s episode looks at the controversy and scandal of infidelity through the lens of the Ashley Madison documentary now streaming on Netflix (*spoiler alert for those who haven’t yet watched it*) (There is also a trigger warning for suicide)

As someone who has navigated the painful path of betrayal and divorce, I watched this documentary with both caution and curiosity.

In the episode I delve into the murky waters of the dating site designed specifically for married individuals seeking affairs; from the alarming marketing strategies to the fallout of the infamous 2015 hack.

I discuss stories of individuals shown in the documentary who were affected by the hack, including the superficial portrayal of forgiveness and reconciliation (not to mention some religious hypocrisy). 

I also talk about the heart-breaking consequences faced by the real victims—the betrayed spouses, which in my view was the part the documentary failed to meaningfully cover. 

There was a lot of focus in the documentary on the impact of the hack as opposed to the impact of the betrayal, and I cover this and more in this episode… 

...as well as the discovery of a potential link with my own ex-husband.

Do let me know what you thought of the documentary (and the episode) 

Until next time, sending you loads of love

Sarah x

🌸





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00:00

Hola, and welcome to the divorce chapter podcast where we turn the divorce plot twist into happily ever after. And this week might come with a bit of a trigger warning slash spoiler alert, as I'm going to be talking about the Ashley Madison documentary that's been showing on Netflix, so if you haven't watched it yet, you might want to come back to this one. I decided to watch this a couple of weeks ago when it was the long bank holiday weekend in the UK. And I knew it may be somewhat triggering but decided its research right? So for those who don't know, Ashley Madison was is basically a dating site for married people to have affairs. Yes, you heard that correctly, a dating site for married people, which in itself is hugely re traumatising for those of us who've experienced infidelity and betrayal trauma as a result. Its founder and previous CEO, scumbag professed that it was a good thing for marriages. He was reported as saying that is therapeutic and beneficial. And that I quote, marriage is preserved through infidelity. End of quote, excuse me whilst I vom. He said that because 30% of people on dating sites are married anyway, which to be fair is a true story, he thought he'd make use of a gap in the market and start a specific site accordingly. And using shitty marketing slogans like when monogamy becomes monotony, built up to 15 Fucking million 15 million clients by 2015. Now, I do understand the line, the view that it's only there in the first place, because there's a market for it. And clearly there was given the numbers, but promoting it is another fucking level, no? But I think the problem here, my view, is that they've exploited the market to make cheating appear acceptable. And so the cheaters convinced themselves it's okay. Not wrong at all. Except funnily enough, they still know it's wrong enough to not want to get caught, aren't they? If it's not wrong, why are you so worried about being found out huh? And the documentary noted that if wives called to question credit card charges, they made sure the billing company covered several organisations to cover themselves and the cheater, and then got onto the cheater to get him to give them another card. Because they were, quote, not there to destroy marriages. I'm not sure what else they thought was gonna happen. 

 

03:32

Anyway, so in 2015, the Ashley Madison website got hacked by a group calling themselves the impact team. And all hell broke loose. The hackers threatened to leak the names and personal details of everyone on the site, unless Ashley Madison shut it down. But there was an IPO in progress. So of course, entitlement and greed won out not sure I would expect anything different given the basic foundation of infidelity is entitlement, right, but yeah, because the founder and CEO of Ashley Madison was an egotistical prick who himself was putting himself out there as a faithful husband, but shagging anything that moved, he decided he knew better. He chose to continue and not shut it down. His focus was on damage control. And the documentary reported that insiders were confirming that he hadn't given a shit about protecting the cheaters data. So all that chatting shit about confidentiality and the promises that Ashley Madison is discreet soon went out the fucking window, didn't it? Maybe the cheaters now know a tiny snippet of what it's like to have your trust betrayed huh. Nothing compared to the actual betrayal trauma of infidelity though. But yeah, this prick had wheeled his wife out all over the place, supposedly depicting how he was faithful in his own marriage was also a lying cheater. He had her on Bloody billboards, saying, My wife is attractive, I bet yours is too. But he maintained the image that he was a devoted family man, shocker that he was anything but. But it's funny how he claimed that infidelity strengthens marriages, but didn't want to admit to it himself. That just me? I mean, personally, I do question if it was him behind the hack in some way, like, it was some fucked up marketing campaign or something. And although the documentary implied, it could have been an insider. I mean, it's not for me to surmise, I can surmise that the guy was a fucking jerk. But Ashley Madison offered a half a million dollar reward. And despite that, allegedly Money Talks, no one came forward. And the police said that if it had been a team, someone would have broken from the team for that kind of money. And interestingly, the impact team have never been heard of since which led police to think it was one person and an insider. Interesting, but whoever it was, at the helm, we have this jerk who called himself the king of infidelity. The king of infidelity who claims not to be cheating, but was having affairs with multiple women and had a penchant for 18 year old sex workers. I mean, it's not really a surprise. It's not really a surprise is it come on. Like calling himself the king of infidelity and promoting it? If he thinks it's cool, he's gonna bloody do it isn't he, it's like selling meat as a vegan otherwise, no. 

 

07:10

But anyway, yes, the site was hacked in 2015. And suddenly, all these cheaters who had been sold the bullshit, like, life is short, have an affair were, royally fucked right back. Everything was revealed. All the data on everyone who signed up was leaked. In a viral fashion. There were celebrities named, there were 15,000 I think they said military and government personnel, which of course led to all sorts of shenanigans to try and get names cleared off the list. All sorts of blackmail going on. People on it, were desperate to keep their data hidden, and wives everywhere wondering if their husbands on it, were desperate to try and find out. And eventually it started off on the dark web, but then eventually got onto mainstream Internet where it was much easier to find the tea, you know. And the show did talk about one woman in Australia who called up a television hotline, live on air to be told her husband's name was on the list. Nobody who signed up was safe, and they'd signed up under this guise of infidelity being acceptable, but when it came to the crunch, not so much. 

 

08:33

They believed the crap that monogamy equals monotony and signed up paying copious amounts of money because everything worked on credits. Every message took credits up every match took credits up, and these people got sucked in by this anti monogamy bullshit. I mean, I just want to say if you find monogamy boring, don't fucking get married to one person then, it's not fucking rocket science is it you pricks? Seriously, if you believe in bigamy, or polygamy or whatever, and both sides sign up to that then go for your life, that's not cheating. That doesn't involve betrayal as there's consent, all round, right. Like we saw in the documentary, this Rob and Stephanie. So it started with Rob, saying there were so many women, like he was a fucking six year old spoiled brat in a sweet shop, so many women. So he bought more and more credits, and he was blathering on that marriage is difficult and the sex life gets boring. So you need to mix it up and all this shit. And we then meet Stephanie, who's seemingly with Rob, and she talked about being a serial cheater because she needs to feel wanted and not like a roommate. And she says shit, like he wasn't giving me enough attention. So It's his own fault. And that long term relationship sex is a chore. So Rob and Stephanie are a couple that now allow each other to have affairs. And to me that's fundamentally different as now at least, who bloody knows what went on before the hack. There's now consent on both sides. So it's not betrayal and Rob, bloke, Rob, but at least acknowledges that he said violation of trust is the problem. So I'm not entirely sure why they were on there. Well I do know, actually, and that's because the documentary focused on Ashley Madison as a site, the hacking and the impact of that, not the impact of infidelity and betrayal. It spent a lot of time, focused on their adverts, and that their marketing was all round, as I said, when monogamy becomes monotony, it's just that implication constantly that monogamy isn't natural. Only monogamy is not the problem. It's signing up to saying you're monogamous. It's committing to a monogamous marriage, but doing anything but which means if you truly believe that monogamy is not normal, then commit to a monogamous relationship, the whole thing's based on a lie. The whole premise of the relationship is screwed because the monogamous one doesn't even fucking know. 

 

11:43

And it said shit like? Life is short have an affair, because they reckon that affairs in the workplace were their biggest competitor. So rather than risk, the chance affairs in the workplace, taking their customers, they needed to make sure affairs happened. And to make sure they had a minister of affairs. It's so fucked up. But the focus of the documentary was all about the poor little victims of the hackers. Not the poor victims of the fucking cheaters. The poor cheaters themselves. So like we heard from Sam and Nia, right, Sam went through this whole sob story, his dad had left his mum when he was kid. So he grew up watching romantic movies and expecting marriage to be like that. So when he grew up and met Nia, he fell in love and wanted the romance. So of course, they had the big beauts wedding. Only Sam felt that married life and subsequently, being a dad himself, was not as exciting as they thought it would be. Poor little soldier, it was too much responsibility. And so he signs up to Ashley Madison. Oh, hang on a minute, not only did he sign up, he signed up for elite services, he paid the extra buddy. As you do because clearly there's no other way when life is so dull with your wife that you committed to. And those kids that you chose to create, you know? But then Sam talks about him and Nia then finding fame on YouTube singing let it go Disney songs. And they went viral. And they showed themselves as this good Christian family, clean living and all that. So he says he came off of Ashley Madison, because now he'd found the adulation, he'd found the validation. He needed. It says it all. it says don't it? So they then showed this really random viral video about him supposedly doing a pregnancy test form his wife's wee in the toilet without her knowing, so he could supposedly surprise her with a pregnancy test. Which is just fucking weird. Like, I've got so many questions. Didn't she flush? Doesn't the loo water skew the results? I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, I digress. So we then get to the hacking bit. We've conveniently skipped over the signing up bit because we've got a focus on his viral fame and being a doting Christian husband, we've we've skipped that. signing up to Ashley Madison bit. So Sam said that he heard about the hackers. But he just couldn't deal with it. As a Christian, it would ruin his reputation. Don't you know? Only when the names were leaked, because he was now out there, fame viral as a moral Christian guy. Of course, it all came out. And he said he kept checking and his name was safe, safe, safe. But then on the way to the airport to go to a conference in their vlogging life. His name was mentioned on Twitter. And so he took the decision to tell Nia in the middle of the airport obvs, you know, cos you wouldn't go home and do it. Tell her in the middle of the airport don't you, obviously. Which then led to this whole sob story about how the hackers ruined his life. Not that he'd ruined his own life by being a cheating lying wanker in the first place. No, had it not been for the hack, his reputation would have been safe, poor lamb. Oh. So nia says that she was infuriated, and that it was a selfish decision of his but he told her that he'd never met anyone on Ashley Madison or did anything. So she latched on to that, as she do. She said she felt betrayed and hurt, but she wanted to forgive him. And she believed him. And she believed that she was the best wife. And she believed that they were winning at the marriage game, which I mean, I'm no marriage expert, clearly as a divorce podcaster. But is seeing marriage as a game in the first place a bit of an issue? I don't know I don't know. But either way, she blamed herself, as us victims of infidelity often do, and understandably, she was pissed. But anyway, it went viral, whilst they were at the conference that is name had come out the conference, they still flew to, I mean, personally, I'd have dumped him at the airport. But hey, that's me. So, you know, Christian vlogger and all that, you know, they said, If you boast a moral high ground, you're gonna get the attention. So what does one do in this situ? We do another YouTube video with Sam saying that his wife, and God had forgiven him. But it was okay, because he's never met anyone. So we all went back to viral smiley, happy Christian life. Except Sam then goes on to tell us that he knew he was being phoney and knew he was still lying. Shock. Horror. However, there was something about a brother saying something on the family WhatsApp that he needed to tell the truth or something, so he called his pastor who told him this is what living in dishonesty has brought you. So out it comes years, years of betrayals acted out throughout the marriage, emotional relationships flirting even came on to one of Nia's friends who didn't reciprocate, she cut herself out of Nia's life instead. And Nia said that at that her world crumbled, which, you know, i feel you love, that fucking earthquake is a killer. And she said that everything felt like a lie. All the feelings we all felt, you know, the wedding days special moments, everything was a fucking lie, just all gone, gone just suddenly over. And she said that she struggled with that she was not enough for him and says that she worked so hard to be what she thought he wanted. He said that he expressed remorse every single day. Now, whether that was real remorse with any actual humility. Who fucking knows? He says how much he loved her. He must have forgotten that bit whilst he was betraying her over and over again. But now Now he wanted it to work so badly. And Nia said that they had had deep conversations to find out what was real but she didn't, for a couple of weeks want to fix it. She didn't want to reconcile them. Pastor again, encouraged him to tell her everything, everything and then then he realised how selfish he was. And sat for hours of counselling. God love him. So Nia gave him a second chance and it ended with them, saying that they don't regret the hack even though it's started with ruin their lives, but anyway, they said it had to happen for them to get to where they are today and was a starting point for how to live the rest of marriage. I mean, I'm not quite sure. Why he didn't grasp that at the point of marriage. But there we go, there we go. Sam ended up professing that Ashley Madison is, and I quote, evil on a whole new level. I mean, I agree. But then I wasn't the one signing up for elite services was I, you know? I just question where the accountability sits in this whole goddamn farce. 

 

20:38

Because we then had the story of Christi, Christi and her husband John, lived in a small community where everyone knows everything. She said that they worked so hard at building an image. And she believed it's reality. She said that she met John at 23. And their thing was letter writing to each other declaring their thoughts and feelings and because it seemed like they wanted the same things. They were married by 24. And everyone thought they had a great marriage. I know that feeling I hear I see that. I feel that. But she said that John was not careful about secrets. And she caught him a few times. But when she challenged him, he totally gaslit her. She says she gaslit herself. And she says that she discovered inappropriate relationships, and found letters between John and other women, which she found the hardest as that was their thing. But they had their image to protect too. There's a theme here, there's a theme. So when the Ashley Madison hack happened and names were leaked, Christi did search for his name. But it involved jumping through hoops that she didn't want to face jumping through. And she admits that she was not going to do anything about it even if he was on it. So what was the point of knowing? And they say ignorance is bliss. So anyway, she carried on. But as the names were coming out, she went home from work, went inside, and found that John had killed himself which suicides horrendous, right? We know that. And Christi acknowledges that he cheated on her then cheated her out of the opportunity to get answers, which is just, you know, it's horrific. We want answers, even though they end up being more lies, we want it. But then, it took a turn with Christi and her views. It turns out that what had happened was that he'd gone to work, which seemed to be that he was a minister, another theme, and worked at some sort of school to become ministers where his bosses had found out that his name was on the list. And his name had been seen. So John, reportedly cried and resigned. And then hours later took the decision to end his life. It is just like Sam, this Christian theme with an image to protect which this, you know, they clearly missed. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Isn't that one of the 10 commandments? Did I remember that from Sunday School wrong? Just feels like such religious hypocrisy. But, you know, what we then got from the documentary was Christi saying it was the cancer of shame, and she entirely entirely blames the witch hunt. She said, witch hunt so many times as if she was trying to convince herself let alone the audience. She says that people who judge are self righteous and she quotes the Bible and says you without sin cast the first stone and repeatedly focused on the so called Witch Hunt and saying that we all make one mistake. We all have a secret we're not proud of. I mean, I think he made more than one mistake but you know, who am I to judge covering up for a lying cheat of her husband until the ends. But she says and she still says off the documentary she said this that she wanted the chance of reconciliation like Sam and Nia as though her husband who had clearly cheated on her for years was suddenly going to see the light and turn into the good Christian man had been faking the image of all along. So Christi blames the people who judge, she blames the site, Ashley Madison, she blames the hackers. She blames everyone except her husband. 

 

25:24

And that, I think, is the thing for me with this whole documentary, the focus is on the company, the impact of the hack on the cheaters and the impact of the hack on Ashley Madison. Nobody is really talking about the impact on the victims of infidelity of betrayal. I mean, meaningfully talking about it. There's the odd Oh, it must be horrible line. But quickly back to oh, these poor cheaters being caught out. Do we really see cheating as so fucking Okay. It's back to that episode I did a few weeks ago when they are normalising cheating. It's so normal, that we've got a fucking dating site for married people. And when it all goes tits up, and the company fuck around with keeping your data secure. That's the focus. Not that the cheaters were on the fucking thing in the first place. And as I understand it, just from reading up and looking into it a little bit more. It's my understanding that victims of infidelity as a result, were sought. And the documentary makers said that they wanted a rounded view. But I'm aware of at least two victims, who dumped the cheater because of the betrayal through Ashley Madison, who'd interviewed with the documentary makers, but didn't make the cut. So the well rounded few ended up with two religious cheaters who God has forgiven and two consenting basically swingers. And then two true victims who seemingly blame everything and everyone else. But the cheaters. 

 

27:31

And, you know, do you know what was even weirder, watching the whole goddamn thing got even more interesting for me at a personal level. So after the hack, right, as the saga went on, the documentary is talking about the nauseating CEO was forced by the board to quit. And the company was taken over by a company called avid Life Media, because it was fucked as Ashley Madison, let's be honest. And as I was watching, I got this immediate flashback, avid Life Media. So back in 2012, rewind, when my own marriage was deteriorating, I opened a credit card statement. And it was a card in my name, but a card that I knew fuck all about. And on there was a transaction to a company called avid dating life. Now at the time, I looked it up and saw that it was a company who deleted evidence of affairs. So I rather stupidly confronted my ex as you do, and lost my shit. As you do. And at the time, I again stupidly believed his bullshit and protestations of innocence, or maybe I just wanted to back then actually, I wanted to believe it. You know, maybe I was more like Nia and Christi back then as well, you know. And then, in the shitshow of the subsequent affairs, the emotional abuse, the physical abuse, the financial abuse, all the all the shizzle, this credit card thing had got kind of swallowed up by far bigger dramas, because in the grand scheme of what came next it was small fry really. So then there I was watching the documentary, and they say avid Life Media, and I was like, Oh, this is too big a coincidence. So I looked up. And of course, avid dating life is part of avid life media. So those who took over Ashley Madison have basically run their business on supporting affairs. was the the parent company of this company that supposedly delete data. Although it was also shown on the documentary that even though people were paying to delete their data, no data was ever deleted, shocker that my ex blew more of marital money on shite. So then in 2015, when all the Ashley Madison stuff leaked, I do remember reading bits and pieces about it, but I was by then divorced, and as I said overcome by bigger trauma. So I don't know maybe I missed the avid life connection or didn't pick up on it at least. But in 2024, watching this documentary I sure as hell did. So now I was then left with the questions that I'll never know the answer to like, was my ex husband on Ashley Madison? Was he paying to have affairs the whole fucking time whilst portraying this nice guy, family man image? Was he just the sleazeball? The whole time? Well I know the answer to that one, but the rest of it I'm never gonna know now. And you know, more to the point, it doesn't matter now anyway, I already know he's a cheating lying wanker. I already doubt our entire marriage, and I already could never trust a word that comes out of his mouth. So it doesn't really help to know any more now does it? So. What I do know is that I entirely blame him. I don't blame hackers. I don't blame a site. I don't blame anyone else. But him. But I suppose I just guess it was an interesting ride for me, watching the documentary, and getting triggered as fuck by the whole slant they put on all that it was all Ashley Madison's fault. It was all the hackers fault. The impact team is widely blamed for the number of suicides that happened as a result, not just John, there were several. But had the cheaters not signed up for it in the first place. Their details wouldn't have been on there for fucking data breach would they? So how come the cheaters don't get any blame for the decision that they made to sign up? The betrayal trauma they've caused the emotional harm, the financial harm, the sexual harm? That they risked it? 

 

32:32

Oh, for bit of excitement. And they talked on the documentary constantly about it being exciting. But actually, what's exciting about destroying the person you're supposed to love. What's exciting about STDs? What's exciting about financial destruction? What's exciting about affair children. What's exciting about screwing up your kids? I mean, sorry, am I missing something? What is so exciting? Yeah, maybe next time think of an alternative hobby that doesn't, you know, destroy people. You know? Honestly, I will never understand it. But anyway, that is my rant over. And that is my one huge spoiler. If you haven't watched it, I'm sorry. I did warn you at the start. And I'd love Love, love, love to hear your thoughts on all of this, whether you've watched the documentary or whether you've just got enough of a gist from listening to this episode that you don't even want so what did you think if you have watched it, do let me know. And that kind of rant probably hasn't been helpful too. But you know, it kind of wraps up for this week. And I am super conscious that I've kind of done two weeks on infidelity with the overview of leave a cheater gain a life last week. And now Ashley Madison this week. So next week, we're going to have something different. Because we have got our first guest which is super exciting. You are going to love her. So make sure you listen up for that one next Friday. Thank you as always for listening. I will be back in your beautiful earbuds for that exciting guest and I will see you then with loads of love from me

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Sarah Elizabeth

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