The Divorce Chapter

EP43 The LEGALLY NIK Chapter: Bridging the Gap in Navigating Co-Parenting Challenges

• Sarah Elizabeth • Episode 43

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On this week’s episode we have the amazing Legally Nik as our wonderful first ever guest on the Divorce Chapter pod.

Nik is a trained family lawyer specialising in child protection and she also is a co-parenting, counter- parenting mentor. Bridging the gap between the law and real life, Nik provides not only legal guidance to your personal matters, but equips you with strategies and coping mechanisms to get through what can only be described as, one of the most painful points of your life. Nik is a mum herself and is just an utterly fabulous human doing fantastic work and I utterly LOVED recording this episode with her.

There are so many takeaways in the episode:

  • Explaining co-parenting, counter-parenting and parallel parenting.
  • Managing the parenting relationship with a difficult ex.
  • Different family dynamics.
  • Dealing with litigation abuse.
  • Putting children first.
  • The importance of compartmentalising our pain.

And so much more.

I hope you enjoy listening to the episode as much as I enjoyed recording it.

(And if you do, I’d love it if you could rate and review the episode 🫶)

You can find Nik here - 

www.legallynik.co.uk

instagram.com/legallynik/


Enjoy 🩷

Sending you SO much love

Sarah x

🌸

P.S. We have chosen July’s book over in the Divorce Book Club; it’s How to Do You by Jacqueline Hurst; you can check it out here - 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B098GSZ11T/ref=nosim?tag=thedivorceb00-21

I’d love to see you over there 📚Link to join below ⬇️





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SPEAKERS

Sarah Elizabeth, Legally Nik

Sarah Elizabeth  00:00

Hello, and welcome to the divorce chapter podcast where this week we are extremely blessed to have our first guest How exciting. So we have the brilliant Nik, otherwise known as legally Nik. Nik is a trained family lawyer specialising in child protection. And she is also a co parenting counter parenting mentor. Bridging the gap between the law and real life, Nik provides not only legal guidance to your personal matters, but equips you with strategies and coping mechanisms to get through what can only be described as one of the most painful points of your life. Nik is a mum herself, and is just an utterly fabulous human doing fantastic work. So welcome.

Legally Nik  00:50

Thank you. Thank you so much. Lovely, lovely, lovely introduction. Thank you. I'm honoured to be the first guest.

Sarah Elizabeth  01:01

Welcome to the podcast.You are the first guest. It's very exciting. Very exciting. So tell us a bit more about yourself, Nik, and how you kind of got into this line of work, I guess.

Legally Nik  01:12

Yeah, so I'm a child protection solicitor. I have worked in, I trained in private family. And then a couple years later, I moved into child protection work. And you know, I got married, I had babies and real life set in. And real life, as we know, can be very complicated. And I did experience some complications along the way. And in doing so, I had a greater understanding in the co parenting world, and also very clearly working within child protection, and I have an understanding, having worked in private family. And one day, I just decided to turn the camera on, and I guess, look for my own kind of therapy, and just therapeutically, talk to myself, advise myself, I'd look in the camera, and I'd remind myself of what was important. And in doing so as ended up making these videos or posting them on tik tok for the first I'd say like eight months. But I got lost on tik tok a little bit. The generation you know, it's what's it Gen Z over there? I think I get lost there a little bit and just see who would attach to it. Very quickly followers started, you know, mounting, which was really overwhelming, but a huge confidence boost. So I just continued making those videos. And then I think it was in December, I decided to transition some of that content over to Instagram, and Instagram is more our age. And it it hit, it resonated. And I've really loved interacting with people who just get it. And over the last month, I introduced my mentoring services, following obviously, like 12 years of professional experience, but sprinkling in that personal experience and knowledge. I'm loving it. I've turned some of my pain into purpose that way. Yeah, really, really enjoying it and getting to do things like this like, yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. It's been really, really great. 

Sarah Elizabeth  03:39

It's kind of quite a weird world, isn't it? Because obviously, like I'm a social worker, in the day job. And I always say, you know, kids, when they're kids don't grow up saying I want to be a social worker do they? When they grow up, you know, it's kind of life that ends up that way. They probably say they want to be a lawyer, but like kind of life, it just kind of ends up that way, doesn't it? Sometimes, and I think in turning that pain that you're saying to purpose and power. Everything happens for a reason and gives you an extra. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You talk about kind of co parenting your co parenting journey. And you've also talked about like counter parenting and is there parallel parenting? Is that the same? Is that different? Can you tell us a bit about what they all are and what how they differ, I guess.

Legally Nik  04:28

Yeah, co parenting is where one wants to be. Okay. It's where you want to end up. It's the end goal. It's collaboratively parenting with the other parent to your child. Counter parenting is when you are facing somebody, a parent who is purposely doing everything in their power to cause you and the child in turn distress in that journey. And when you have somebody like that, when you have somebody that's constantly pushing the boundaries, that doesn't put the child's emotional, possibly physical welfare first, one will find themselves with little to no option, but to have to parallel parent. So parallel parenting is is all that you're left with, which is where you quite literally have to parent parallel to that other parent, you're not co parenting with the, you can't co parent with them, because then they're not matching that energy. If anything, they're just constantly fighting, against you so. Okay, I have to get to a point now, where I have to let go of what I can't control. I have to grey rock myself, yeah, I have to just completely isolate myself from what happens in that other house. Let go of what happens in that other house, as long as my child is physically safe, that that is enough at some point. And I now have to just focus on what I can control, which is what's happening in my house. So I talk about it in my videos. About what how do you do that? You do that by not talking too much to your child about what's happening in the other house? Not asking them too many questions like oh, so Daddy's got a new girlfriend or... we've got to let it go. Unless that, you know, your partner is a safeguarding risk. And we know that you can't get involved in the way that the other parent parents, you can be a gentle parent, and they are authoritative. Or if they're a Disney parent, you just have to separate yourself, because the only way that you're mentally going to be able to survive. And perhaps, if we are, you know, I always say like, model the behaviour, like, still act with dignity and grace and parenting with that in a child focused way. Perhaps we can get to that co-parent stage. But perhaps it's going to take years. Yeah, you, you we don't want to just be surviving in this life, we do end up what? We need to be thriving at some point. But you're only going to be able to do that if you parallel parent, if you're dealing with that counter. Yeah, if you're dealing with that counter parent, it's constantly at you like, why didn't you do this? Or like, Why didn't you tell me that or, but okay, we have to get to this point where I don't have to tell you, every goddamn thing. There's, I have to tell you some things like where they have to, when they're going to the hospital, when they have serious medical issues, there's going to be serious change to their schooling, that serious things I'll talk to you about. But everything else, you're the parent, you get on with it over there, I'm going to be getting on with it over here. Because it's the only way that I can do it. I don't know what to do with your barrage of abuse. I don't have to deal with you. judging me, I don't have to deal with you wanting to know what's happening with me all the time. We have to separate that boundary in their software that can only happen through the parallel parent takeover.

Sarah Elizabeth  08:22

Quite often then that it's just the one parent that's doing that. Right. Because it's almost like, I heard someone say you saying about, not not just surviving. I heard someone say recently about that, they're kind of almost counting the child's childhood away. Yeah. Like, wishing it away, just so that the child can be an adult and I can get rid of him. You know, we

Legally Nik  08:46

I see memes all the time where it's, like, can't wait to my child turns 18 and then I'm going to delete the dads number or the mums number. And it's so sad because I try to talk about this as well that it's your motherhood journey. It's your fatherhood journey. It's your it's your parenthood, like their childhood. You know, this is sometimes we've, we've waited years, we've dreamed of it, we've, we've, you know, wanted it, smell it and live it and you know, and then you you enter it and it's shat all over. You know, I want you to be able to, to grasp it again. Okay, we have to deal with the trauma of how it hasn't worked out how we wanted. That's frickin painful. But I don't want that to then spill on to your children. And like I say we can't control like, okay, they're gonna spill it on to them. But we can mop up what we can in our area. This is what I talked about. Like when they grow they will know. That's like keep your keep your dignity, keep your grace how By trying to provide the best childhood parenthood journey that you can. And as they grow, they will understand the nuances of that other parent. Yeah. They won't blame you for it, because they'll have it like, they will not that will be an unbiased, unfiltered view.

Sarah Elizabeth  10:18

Kids do work out on the end, right? They? Yeah.

Legally Nik  10:25

You know, they're pretty clever creatures. So yeah, yeah,

Sarah Elizabeth  10:30

I guess I suppose you sort of touched on it there when you said that people are experiencing the trauma. Yeah, so there's so many emotions involved as well. So you've kind of got to be able to almost park, you're dealing with not let that interfere, isn't it? Because it's a control thing, isn't it? Because it's like they want to control what you're doing. But equally, we probably want to control what's happening for our child, as well. 

Legally Nik  11:01

100% and I think like, people are so entrenched in their pains, right. And when you've separated from your partner, usually separate over a shitty situation something has happened. Yeah. You've lost control of your life, your family or so you feel and therefore you're like clambering so that you can get back? And that often looks at your children? Yeah. Especially if you're, you're the one that has, like, did 90% 95% of the parenting anyway, but you mean, you're going to come in? And you're going to, you know,

Sarah Elizabeth  11:43

5050? Yeah, just

Legally Nik  11:49

looking at the other side, the other side is going to be feeling like you don't think you can take away from me like, you know, okay, so you've left me now or, okay, like, you're bitter about this now. And they're going to clamber to hold on to, to what they can. So it just becomes a mess. And I always say to people like you, I'll give you a week. I'll give you a week of this mind frame. And then you have to let it go. Yeah. And it's I know, it's easy for me to say that because of the professional background that I've had. So I know that that when certain things have happened to me in the past, it's that hat that I've put on within days, in order to okay, like I'm human, I said things that I shouldn't have said in front of my children. Yeah, almost within a few days, right? I know what's important. For many others, it's months, years. So I'm on this platform, just like I want you to scroll and I want to remind you, I want to remind you, I want to like reel you back to this input what this is all about. Yeah. Please don't forget that this is your children's childhood. Don't forget what you probably experienced as a child, what you probably heard, I don't want, you know, I don't want that cycle to continue. We're living in a generation where every second video I see is about gentle parenting about wanting to protect their childhood. And that all comes, you know, like, parenting the right way. But it all gets lost when you're entrenched in the family addictions. You know, don't love you anymore. That's why I have to make these videos for you to remember in those in those moments. We;'re in Court and we're bitter at this. He lied about me and he lied about in his trial. Okay, but still, what's important there? You know,

Sarah Elizabeth  13:48

that reminder, isn't it? Because I think my, my kids were adults, when I went through all my shit show. They were 19 and 21 When I went through it, but I do often wonder what I would have been like, because even as a social worker and knowing what the right thing to do is I do wonder what I'd have been like, I think I'd have been an absolute nightmare, I'd have needed someone like you because it is so important to bring that back, isn't it to remember that we're the adults in this. 

Legally Nik  14:19

I have social workers in my DMs that that kind of like blows my mind sometimes because they're my clients, they are actually my day job. Of course, yeah. So, but it just reminds you that we're all human. I also have barristers in my DMs. I also have other fellow solicitors in my DMs, we're all human, human Pain is pain and this shit is hard. It really and like I said, I was making these videos to remind myself of what was important. Yeah. So yeah, forgive yourself. Give yourself a week and then you need to snap, snap, snap out of it and start reminding yourself I have what's important you kids are important. Your kids view of you is important. One shot at this. Yeah. And I want my children when they grow up to look back and go, Wow. She was human, but she handled that trauma. And she never spilled it onto us. Yeah, I can do it. Anybody can do it. That's

Sarah Elizabeth  15:21

like the gold standard, isn't it? You know, to get to work? How do you do give advice and support about if you have got someone that's, you know, really trying hard to get to that coparenting point. But they've got someone coming at them constantly attacking and criticising them and, and trying to undermine their parenting do you give them advice on how to manage that. Yeah.

Legally Nik  15:46

So for me, it's all about, again, because we can't control what's happening over there. It's about teaching them like or giving them strategies to empower themselves, though they are not holding on to this co parenting dream. Yeah, because it's not happening right now. So we need to let go of it. And we need to get to a point where we're just focusing on like I said, the parallel parent, just what you were doing, what you should respond to, and what you shouldn't respond to how you take it in, when they send you that shitty message. The volumes it speaks of that person rather than yourself that those things might sound cliche, but once they drop in you like, like, drop into your head, like we spoke before, like, you start to pity the person. Yeah, like he's barking that shit at you? Yeah, right? Yes, I pity them. And when you pity them, they can't touch you the same way. So that is where I try to get people and don't take one or two, like you. Maybe you're going to call me every time you get that message or that email. That's completely normal. But the more we talk, the more you'll get there. And this is what people often in the past at least have used the solicitors for. This isn't what solicitors are trained to do. Like this, the solicitors are trained to do so you're actually paying somebody like 250 pounds. A conversation that you could be having with like a mentor or your friend, it's quality over quantity, but I understand you want to have that impartial person who who has a deeper understanding of the process. So yeah, that's how I got through it. I

Sarah Elizabeth  17:32

do remember battering my solicitors. Yeah, I was going through it, but he wasn't responding to anything. So you got the whole like

Legally Nik  17:44

I bet your solicitor would give you about like 50 seconds of legal advice. Yeah. Yeah. Like

Sarah Elizabeth  17:51

she just wrote letters for me all the time, bless her.

Legally Nik  17:54

That's where I talk about okay, like, let's bridge that gap. Yeah, I think you need the legals like go and get your legal advice. Yeah. But then I think you've just said, co parenting support. Yeah. So actually, a lot of firms now are starting to offer like therapy to provide other amazing yeah, I think that's where there is a massive gap. So

Sarah Elizabeth  18:17

needed, because as you say, is when you've got those emotions, when you've got that trauma, it just adds so much complication to it, doesn't it? Yeah, it really does. It does. Do you think about contact, you something you mentioned about communication? Yeah. What sort of tips do you give about managing that contact? And you know, handovers and messages, like, because they've got apps and things now, I don't know, do you recommend them? What? What's the best way?

Legally Nik  18:43

Yes, there's coparenting apps, I've done like, you know, reviews of of some of them, like my family wizard, and the ones where they even you can write a message in it. And the app will take the emotion out of the message. Wow, some of them are amazing. Some of them very, very AI. You can obviously screenshot or they save the messaging. They are some of them are really, really, really good. Whatever works for that person. If it's WhatsApp if it's a separate phone, if it's only via email. I prefer things to be in writing rather than over the telephone. Yeah, that's one thing I do say. So that communication be can be evidenced and kept. And I really tried to break down, like what it is that you should respond to and what you shouldn't do, like, for example, speaking to somebody the other day, and they said like, the parent was messaging me about a cough that the child had. And if that child had had a cough whilst in that parents care, yeah. And the parents responded, saying no, they didn't have a cough in my care and they didn't have to have medicine or anything like that. And then the other parent responded saying, Did I even ask you about medicine? Why talk about medicine for? You know, a snarky response. Yeah. And the person I was speaking to said, and I just lost my shit, rarararara. I said, Okay, so that's where you went wrong. So I said it's completely normal to have responded about the medicine because I would have done that, you know, you were just providing the normal proportionate

Sarah Elizabeth  20:34

parenting response. Yeah,

Legally Nik  20:36

yeah. I said, then when they responded to you with their narky ness, that's when you should have just cut it. Yeah. That's their problem. Now. They, they've, they've taken it somewhere, they've lost it, whilst it's still, you know, centred around like the topic of the child. It's not actually about the child. Now about the emotion, right. So you fell into that trap. So its taught literally talking about how we can decipher what you respond to and what you don't

Sarah Elizabeth  21:11

imagine as well, when you get into like parents are in court. You know, and there's kind of all this bitter dispute, you know, saying about evidence and saying about documenting everything. So as for for court purposes, you know, the courts don't want to hear  he said, she Said, and, and this adult bickering, do they all they care about is the welfare of the child. Yeah. So yeah, I can see how that kind of thing gets lost in, in in talking about court seeing a lot more lately, I think about litigation abuse, and people using the court process, I guess, to further abuse. The other. Do you see that a lot? Yeah. 

Legally Nik  22:02

So like, I did a video recently about post separation, abuse, legal abuse, being one of them. I think I just commented on like, five areas. And it's so many people responded to that video, where they were like, bingo, five out of five. Yeah, literally, like, Oh, my God, it's not actually funny. It's, it's terrible, it is. Yeah. And, yeah, I have people in my in my inbox saying that they're going through hell, and that the court system doesn't do enough to stop it. And it's really, really difficult. Because like to draw the line between a parent's right to bring certain applications, and then when it's becoming obvious that they're only bringing applications in order to cause distress.

Sarah Elizabeth  23:03

Recognising when it gets to that point, and being able to show that isn't it?

Legally Nik  23:07

Yeah. So, you know, the threshold is that it's, it's, it's not in the best interest of the child to continue to bring these applications. Hard. That's hard. But you know, it's usually recognised when the person that continues to bring the application isn't adhering to the orders previously made themselves. So you've bought these applications, but you're not adhering to any of the orders. Okay, yeah. You're just continuing to make applications.

Sarah Elizabeth  23:41

You're just you're just doing it for the sake of it.

Legally Nik  23:44

Yeah. And then you'll see it like, judges, when it's not about the child. Yeah. Because you're clearly seeing the distress that this is putting on the on the children, as well as the parent that you keep bringing to court. Yeah. For example, there's a spends time with order, and you're not spending that time with the child, or it's been really sporadic. What was the point of the order?

Sarah Elizabeth  24:07

Yeah, absolutely. You've just pushed and pushed for an order, and then you're not adhering to it? What's the point? Yeah,

Legally Nik  24:12

yeah. While you're trying to control what the other person what the person does, what they put on social media or what partners that they might a partner they might want to introduce to, to the to a serious partner they might want to introduce to the children or, or stopping them from moving away to be closer to their families so that they can get family support and raising the children because the other parent is just doing everything to counter the parent and how to parent. Yeah, so yeah, legal abuse is rife as financial abuse, just controlling coercive behaviour. All of these things exist, but it's, it takes time for the evidence to build for the court to be able

Sarah Elizabeth  24:13

I think that's the most challenging thing, though, isn't  it? Don't you think? That's the most, because in a legal framework, you've kind of got to have so much of this evidence. And, you know, from a domestic abuse perspective, we know so much domestic abuse, that happens that is not reported. So it's not, it's not on a police system somewhere, it's not going to come up if, if you were gonna do a check, it's not there. You know, my ex husband hit me, I didn't report it. No.

Legally Nik  25:29

I get it completely. I get I get that completely, especially when you have young children, you are just trying to survive. You're just trying to get through the day, put that smile or fake it to make it get go to work, keep the house in order. And like, keep your sanity. And sometimes that looks like not reporting several, several in instance, you could leave, you could leave the guy or the girl, you could leave them. But like actually going and reporting it doesn't tend to what as we know.

Sarah Elizabeth  26:12

Yeah, it doesn't happen. I think physical abuse is reported more. But the emotional abuse, you know, coercive control, let's face it, that sort of underpins the whole of any domestic abuse, but on its own as such, people don't see it, and people don't recognise it today in the same,

Legally Nik  26:34

No, because we're dealing with professionals that are Yeah, yeah, that would say, like, Yeah, but do you have any evidence? And it's, it's heartbreaking. So, you know, again, like I make this platform, and I started talking about these things. I don't think I realised how many people were living experiencing. Yeah. So like, legally, Nik. Yeah. But the law doesn't always I don't always have an answer, or doesn't actually have an answer. I did a story recently, where I was talking about false allegations. Now, I just said, Do you know what? Let me start off by saying the Family Court is pretty awful when it comes to false allegations. Because even if an allegation is found, on the probabilities to not have happened, yeah, we're gonna get an apology

Sarah Elizabeth  27:30

no.

Legally Nik  27:32

Like, nothing's happening. You've just got to get on with your life, regardless of the fact that this person tried to stop you for either having contact or having the child live with you. allegation that was found on the balance of probabilities not to have happen is a really bitter, bagging pill to swallow. Yeah. So no one does so many people are mad at the family court system. Yeah. So I don't always have that legal answer. But you'll see at the end of my videos, where I'm just like, just I see you, and I hear you and I get it, you know? Like, like, solidarity. Yeah.

Sarah Elizabeth  28:15

I think that's where you're saying you're bridging that gap aren't you? You're completely sort of, you're taking that, you know, because it's so nuanced, isn't it? There's so many complex family dynamics that add so many layers of emotional trauma to situations that is never going to be covered in a legal framework. You need to have that. So that's where it's amazing that you're you are bridging that gap. I guess one of the other things I was gonna ask you about was that, particularly in kind of my world, I guess there's a lot about infidelity. When you've got an affair partner, potentially raising your child that sort of sticks in your throat. And you did you did a really good post recently about kind of all the different family dynamics of step siblings and half siblings and siblings and all the different connotations. Yes, I think that's another layer. Yeah. seems much more pain. Yeah,

Legally Nik  29:30

I did. I did that video. And I have to think nearly every single comment, there were so many, it was predominantly women, obviously, that were coming and writing you know, like I was either pregnant as same time as another woman. Or there was an affair baby, or the other parent moved on really quickly and had a child or they left, the affair partner was now stepmum. They've had a child, but all of them. Nearly all of them ended with the children had a relationship. That touched me greatly. That touched me greatly. Because I was I did a very I did a sort of similar video on Tik Tok, where I got a completely different reaction.

Sarah Elizabeth  30:23

Oh really, yeah, it happens quite a lot. It doesn't it's quite interesting to sort of put on a different platform. So

Legally Nik  30:31

I was really proud of Instagram, when when I got that response. But I, I obviously speak to again, predominantly women who are experience, are experiencing, there's so many of them having to deal with the affair partner. Now, part of their children's lives. That is a fucking shit show. That is hard. Okay. So what I do try to do is just give them the space to pour out that pain, because I'm not here to tell you to be the bigger person right now. We'll get there. Yeah, we will, we will, we're going to pull that shit apart. And you're going to realise like that nobody replaces mother, nobody. And I'm not even going to get to the point where I say like, the more people that love your child, the better we don't need. We don't. But nobody is going to replace you. So but let's just sit in a minute of talking about that. Coming to your life, as

Sarah Elizabeth  31:43

you know, it's horrendous, I you know the, the affair partner for my ex husband, that ended so I wasn't ever in that situation. But, you know, thankfully I because I you know, I genuinely don't know how I dealt with it, quite honestly.

Legally Nik  32:02

I mean, there could be violence involved. It's very difficult.

Sarah Elizabeth  32:07

So painful. You're dealing with all of that betrayal, trauma. Yeah. And your children.

Legally Nik  32:15

You're trying your absolute best for your children, not to like not to pour on your pain. Not to get them wet in the storm that you're in. But to face that on a daily, weekly basis. 

Sarah Elizabeth  32:34

It's exhausting. 

Legally Nik  32:35

You need support. You need support. And whether it's a mentor coach therapy, you want to go go bloody antidepressants, whatever it is. Get help, don't just internalise sit and figure out how to deal with it. No, no, because that is that shit is diabolically hard is a terrible, terrible and

Sarah Elizabeth  33:01

it's so bad for you as well. There's so much there's so much research about how much trauma impacts you like, I've got Crohn's disease, which is obviously an autoimmune disorder. And it's there's, there's something like 80% of women with an autoimmune disorder have experienced some level of trauma. Oh, yeah. Because it you know, you holding all that shit in your body, it's got to go somewhere. You know, it's gonna cause that kind of damage, whether it's emotional harm or physical

Legally Nik  33:32

will only make you ill, yeah, only make you ill. If it doesn't make you ill now, it's something that's storing up for the future. So you need to pour it out. And that could look like you know, therapy, whatever that whatever that you know, does look like or it could look like starting a podcast.

Sarah Elizabeth  33:52

Absolutely, that's how I ended up here.

Legally Nik  33:54

Or it like look, anywhere, anything where you are just pouring positivity rather than pain. Yeah.

Sarah Elizabeth  34:02

100% Yeah, couldn't agree more, and think that's why it's so good, the work that you're doing and obviously mines, mines kind of divorced more the emotional side of divorce and building that next next story, a next level after divorce. But I think going through that with the little ones especially when they're caught in it as well. That's adds a completely another dynamic, and it is just so important to like you say that then you are that you're bridging that gap, you couldn't have put it better, you know, it's perfect, because it's that emotional, legal, practical, all the shit all rolled together and it's how you can do all of that still survive, still be a human, still be a person, being a mum, you know that's the other thing, isn't it? Like, you know, it's hard enough anyway, to recognise ourselves as, as people still, and then when you've got all that shit going on you there's no energy left for anything else. So it's so important to get the help. It's really. Yeah, definitely. I think there's been a lot of takeaways that you've shared, and you just you do give so much value like I do love you. But if there was one key bit of advice, whether legal, emotional, practical, what would it be, 

Legally Nik  35:28

I feel like it's my sort of like tagline at this point, but it is to keep your adult issues and your adult pains utterly separated from your children, I have become a master at the compartmentalising. And putting anything that I go through into a box and putting it over to the side. And I just want to teach you to do the same thing. Yeah. Put it in your box, put it in your you know, and just like, put it over there, set it over there. And then when it comes to your kids don't speak negatively about their other parents don't like talk about the reasons why you're not together anymore. Just let them grow and figure it out for themselves. And you will have those conversations as adults, and they will respect you far, far greater for it. Yeah. So yeah, that's, that's my takeaway, just separate it

Sarah Elizabeth  36:28

separate it. And I think that's so true as well, that that that kind of talking to the kids in the right way, isn't it in a kind of an age appropriate way as well, because I think there's a lot of parents who think that they're doing the right thing to lie to their children, or, you know, and actually, yeah, you know, quite often, especially when it's been infidelity, you know, you know, how it feels to be lied to? Yeah. Why would you then lie to someone else and show them that lying is okay, like they know don't know. So it's

Legally Nik  37:00

absolutely, but like you said, it's all about doing it in a age sensitive and appropriate, centred way. So even if that looks like saying, baby, when you're a little bit older, I'm going to explain that to you. Because right now, you're just going to have more questions, and you're not going to fully understand what mummy or daddy is telling you. Yeah, that's okay. Like, come back to me when we're a little bit when you're a little bit older. And we're going to talk about that topic together. Yeah. Those are important questions. Yeah. You know, just you don't need to kill them. Yeah, yeah. You don't need to you don't need to destroy that innocence before it's necessary.

Sarah Elizabeth  37:44

Which comes back to that doesn't it adult pain, keeping that adult pain separate from the children and and keeping those children first? I've got one more question for you. I've obviously just launched too the divorce book club. And we've just done our first month in there. Its a monthly membership based on all things books related to divorce, relationships, personal development all the shizzle. Right. If you had one book that you've read that's really had an impact on you, what would it be and why?

Legally Nik  38:18

My book would be a book called What I know for sure. By Oprah Winfrey, okay. And it's a book that I always come back to, because she literally talks about what she's learned throughout her life and the lessons that she's taken from certain situations. Like when she lost her first serious anchor role, or she's had to deal with sexual abuse, or she actually had an affair with a married man. And she, yes, and she says that it's the only regret that she's ever had in her life. And she discusses how insecure and pathetic she was. The lessons that she's learned from that however, she'll go on to say it always, you know, the chapters will end but what I know for sure is and then the lesson. Okay, yeah, so like drawing the positive out of whatever it is that she's experienced. Always I always come back to that when I'm in like a dark spot or feeling low. And where can I draw the what I know for sure. 

Sarah Elizabeth  39:40

Amazing? Oooh, I'm going to add that to my to be read list. It's a very long to be read list. With a book a month in a book club. I think like we could be here till I'm about 80 I think with what I've got so far. We'll add that to the list. So where can listeners find you if they want to know more.

Legally Nik  40:00

Okay, so right now I'm just on Instagram legally Nik Tiktok legally Nik, and I've got a website as well,

Legally Nik  40:11

legally Nik dot co dot UK. So yeah, you can find me on any of those.

Sarah Elizabeth  40:17

And I'll put all the links for those in the show notes as well. So if people want to book in for mentoring, do they go to your website for that?

Legally Nik  40:25

They well they can ideally they can go to my actually yeah, they can go to my website or they can go to my Instagram and there'll have a link in my bio for my calendar or you could just DM me or email me. Just holler at me.

Sarah Elizabeth  40:39

Holler at you. Nobody can shout at you. Fab, do go and take a look at Nik's work because Well, I think we can all grasp there just listening to you how much knowledge you have and just how much value give so thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you for being my first guest. 

Legally Nik  41:00

My absolute pleasure. 

Sarah Elizabeth  41:01

Thank you so thank you so much. That's it from us from legally Nik and divorce chapter. I will be back in your beautiful earbuds next week, which I always say and I always say sending so much love from me. But actually it's sending so much love from us.

Legally Nik  41:20

So much love from me too.

Sarah Elizabeth  41:21

Loads of love



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Sarah Elizabeth

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