EP93 The Vicki La Bouchardiere Chapter: When Enough Was Enough

What happens when the life you thought you’d live…. the parenting, the partnership, the picture… no longer fits?

In this refreshingly honest and thought-provoking episode, I sit down with Vicki La Bouchardiere, a mother, author, and woman who’s made choices many wouldn’t dare voice… and has found peace on the other side.

This isn’t a story of reinvention.
It’s a story of honest evolution.

💬 In this conversation, we talk about….

 ✨ What happens when you’ve ticked every box… and still feel lost

✨ Why Vicki left a marriage for her children’s sake (and still carried the guilt) 

✨ The emotional labour of motherhood no one validates

✨ Finding freedom in choices that others don’t agree with

✨ How to hold your truth when it threatens your role

🧠 For the woman who….

⚡ Is quietly drowning in a life that looks fine
⚡ Feels like a stranger inside the role of mother, partner, or peacemaker
⚡ Craves honesty over hustle, truth over performance, peace over proof

This episode isn’t a pep talk. It’s a permission slip.

To choose a different story….

Even if no one claps.
Even if you cry the whole way through.
Even if you’re the only one who understands it right now.

You can grab the free audio of Vicki’s book ‘How to Live With a Dickhead’ HERE

You can also find Vicki at: https://vicki@venture-coaching.com

Plus, her Hypnotherapy page. Although Vicki specialises in helping business owners, she would be more than happy to talk to anyone from the Divorce Chapter/ Divorce Book Club. 

Vicki’s socials are also here:

Facebook

LinkedIn

Instagram

💖 Moved by this episode? Tag me @thedivorcechapter and tell me the line that landed.

Or forward this to the friend who’s choosing herself…. quietly, bravely, and without apology.

You don’t need the world’s permission. Just your own.

Loads of Love,

Sarah x

🩷

P.S. ✨ This month in the Divorce Book Club aka Bad*ss AF Book Club, we’re reading Confidence Feels Like Sh*t on Amazon UK* by Erika Cramer….

…..and it’s already sparking Hot Girl Healing conversations.

Think “glow up”.... AND nervous system peace and self-trust rebuild.

Join us for private podcast episodes, online community, and a space where truth doesn’t need a filter.

⬇️

THE DIVORCE BOOK CLUB
 
https://patreon.com/thedivorcebookclub

FREE Guide to the 10 MUST read divorce books after divorce

https://thedivorcebookclub.com/free-resources/

INSTAGRAM

https://www.instagram.com/thedivorcechapter

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Sarah Elizabeth, Vicki La Bouchardiere

Sarah Elizabeth  00:00

Hola and welcome to the divorce chapter, the space where we stop sugarcoating heartbreak and start turning it into the best fucking comeback story ever. Now, if you've ever found yourself awake thinking, How did I end up here, or wondering if you'll ever feel like yourself again, you are so not alone, and today's episode is proof of that. I'm joined by the incredible Vicki, who's bravely pulling back the curtain on her own divorce story, sharing the messy middle, the breakdowns and the breakthroughs that came after. She's not only herself a coach, but also a hypnotherapist, no less, and she has written a book, a fabulously titled book called How to live with a dickhead. Can't wait to read it. But importantly, Vicki is someone who's turned her pain into purpose, and she's here today to remind you that your worst chapter doesn't get to define you. This one's going to be honest, powerful and packed with the kind of choice you really don't get in a solicitor's office, and she has the most glamorous name too Vicki La Bouchardiere, which I never quite say, right? So I just call you Vicki La Bouch. Welcome Vicki La Bouch.

Vicki La Bouchardiere  01:15

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's lovely to be here. And that was a really good, really good pronunciation. I'm impressed.

Sarah Elizabeth  01:24

You pronounce it now so that it's one can hear what it's supposed to sound like. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  01:28

It's La Bouchardiere, which is pretty much what you said. 

Sarah Elizabeth  01:31

I like. Beautiful, very, very glamorous. So thank you for coming on and welcome. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  01:35

You're welcome. It's lovely to see you

Sarah Elizabeth  01:38

 and amazing to have you here. So Vicki, do you mind telling us a bit about yourself and your road through divorce? Because you actually instigated your divorce, didn't you? Which I don't think we hear enough about, right? 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  01:50

Yeah, it was something that sort of like came out of our conversations. Wasn't it that you don't often, necessarily talk to the people who've instigated. 

Sarah Elizabeth  01:58

We don't. We often hear that the ones that have been cheated on, or that's right, but actually it takes a lot of guts and a lot of strength to leave 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  02:08

Well, yeah, my particular story, I got married in 1995, so we're coming up to what would have been my my 30th anniversary. Oh, yes, but I actually got divorced on Well, I made the decision to leave on my 13th anniversary, and we hadn't been in a good place for quite a long time before that, my my ex and I, we were in we were in business together, and we used to have a lot of disagreements within the business, he was a big risk taker. And although I'm not risk averse, I very much felt like a lot of the time I was holding on to his coattails, and he was dragging me through all sorts of, you know, crazy nonsense that when you're trying to bring up three children at the same time and feel a bit much, you just, you just want a little bit of a stable environment for the kids, don't you? 

Sarah Elizabeth  03:02

Of course, of course. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  03:03

And yeah, I felt that the environment was crushing my soul. Basically, I felt that because he was taking the risks that I just wasn't happy with. But he was determined to keep doing it, and he was doing it for all the right reasons. That's the thing. I'm able to look back in hindsight now and see that he was just an ambitious, driven guy wanting to, you know, be successful, to lead his family and to feed the family. And I don't think he was doing anything maliciously in hindsight, but at the time, I felt very unloved and very much the the victim of circumstances that you know, if my my husband doesn't, doesn't care enough to listen to my opinions on things, and is still always determined to go ahead and do his thing, regardless of whether I agree or not, then that, you know, I spent a lot of time feeling like a like a real victim, and really my my self esteem was was so down, it was really quite crippling emotionally, and I spent a lot of time in therapy. I was actually suicidal at one point, and it was all wrapped up in the stress of running this dysfunctional business together, and the feeling of, if I can't rely on my husband to love me, who can I rely on? And I didn't know that that person really needed to be me. 

Sarah Elizabeth  04:33

Hard lesson to learn, isn't it? 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  04:36

Really, because I haven't had great self esteem all through my younger life. I got pregnant when I was 15. I had my first baby at 16, and I had another 111 months later. 

Sarah Elizabeth  04:48

Goodness gracious. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  04:49

So I had my hands full as a single mum. I lived as a single mum with various boyfriends and things for 10 years, and then I met my husband at the time, who, we, he didn't actually adopt the kids, but they called him dad. So okay, we were a family. They took his surname, and my ex and I went on to have a daughter together. So we had, we had three children, they all called him dad. And the the guilt I felt about splitting up my family because I couldn't cope anymore. Was huge. I tried to hang on in there as long as I could. And weirdly, it wasn't until after the business actually failed. There was one risk too many taken. The business failed, and we were in property development. I did the work on site. I'm actually a trained painter and decorator and Site Manager, yeah, so you know, if the, if the coaching and hypnotherapy doesn't work, I can definitely go decorating.

Sarah Elizabeth  05:50

Yeah, there's got to be a link there somewhere.

Vicki La Bouchardiere  05:54

So, yeah, I was doing the work on site with the builders, like a team of 20 at one point, we're working on lots of different properties all at once, and he did the office work, and, you know, deals with estate agents and all that kind of thing. So basically, I'd be, I'd be busting my ass all day on a building site and trying to remember things like school runs and school plays and all this sort of thing, trying to make it all happen. And then coming home to just a home that I felt, I just felt like I was everybody's slave at home. 

Sarah Elizabeth  06:30

Yeah, I can understand that.

Vicki La Bouchardiere  06:33

The housework and the well, actually, my mum helped with the housework towards the end, when I got really busy, but just things like just trying to hold it all together. And one one of the sections in the book I wrote was a little section of poems about how I felt, yeah. So yeah, when you do get to read it, then it gives a little bit more of a flavour about what my life felt like at the time. 

Sarah Elizabeth  06:55

Yeah, because I imagine you felt pretty unseen, right? Because it's yeah, you're doing everything at home, everything at work, everything for the kids, and then when you are expressing an opinion in what is a joint business, so you know, you have an equal say, and you're not being listened to, I imagine you just start to shrink yourself, yeah, to try and fit. And that you can only do that for so long, can't you? 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  07:22

You can. You can. And do you know what? In the end, the business failing was the best thing that ever happened to me, because it forced a change where I was just trying to hang on, hang on, make it work. And when the property business failed, when we could no longer get finance and do all the building works. That's when I chose to retrain as a coach, right? I was lost to begin with. I didn't know what to do next, and I read a book called What colour is your parachute? 

Sarah Elizabeth  07:53

Oh, yeah. Remember that book? 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  07:55

Yeah, yeah. One of the tips it says is, look on your bookshelf to see what the most books you have, because that gives you a clue as to what your passions are. And mine were all like Tony Robbins books and personal development. And I'm okay, you're okay. And I'd already sort of, partly, I'd studied for part of a psychology degree with the Open University, which I'd got right up to the last year, and that was the year we were due to get married, and I said, I can't possibly cope with getting married and studying as well. So I stopped it, and I never went back to it. Another way. I kind of sacrificed a lot for the business, 

Sarah Elizabeth  08:33

Of course, and the relationship, 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  08:35

Yeah, yeah, that's right. There was the clues about what my next career could be. And so I trained as a coach, and I thought at the very worst, I'm going to get something from me out of it, even if I never make a career out of it. And it was back in the day when nobody really knew what a coach was. They were like, what you do be like is that like, personal trainer? No, no. This is actually life coach. And it was so new that people didn't really understand what I was doing apart from my accountant. I'd had various conversations with my accountant who knew about all this stuff, and I was actually having a meeting with him on my anniversary. Right? I had a meeting lined up with the accountant, because my husband had decided he was going to go away that day,

Sarah Elizabeth  09:28

On your wedding anniversary?

Vicki La Bouchardiere  09:30

On our wedding anniversary, yeah, he'd be back in the evening. And things were rocky. We were already in separate bedrooms by then. Yeah, we'd had a trial separation a couple of years earlier, and it was all a bit rubbish anyway. And I was having a chat with my accountant, who actually was on his own with a boy himself, his marriage had split up, and we ended up just talking about relationships and how sometimes you've just got to know when enough is enough, you know. And I was saying about how I felt, and he said, Well, it sounds like you've made your mind up, and I was like, I felt so heard at that point. 

Sarah Elizabeth  10:03

He's listening to you, 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  10:04

Yeah, because he'd been through a difficult marriage himself, and he actually had to tell his wife in the end that enough was enough from her behaviour. And so it was sort of like a moment when I suddenly felt like things had started to crystallise in my mind somebody had actually listened to me in a in a really objective way. Because I know your friends will always say, you know, he's a bastard and gang up with you and just like, yeah. What a bastard. And it just comes into this, like, big pity party, doesn't it? Actually talking to my accountant about it felt very different, and it felt like, what, maybe this is a chance for a new beginning. And I ended up living with him.

Sarah Elizabeth  10:52

Yes, oh, wow.

Vicki La Bouchardiere  10:56

I know we developed a bond. And I mean, as a coach or a hypnotherapist, it's very frowned upon to have relationships with clients. It's like, you don't do that, but I don't think there's similar rules with accountants. So,

Vicki La Bouchardiere  11:12

yeah, I never had it planned to jump ship, and I think a lot of my friends and family thought it was a complete rebound. And like, you know, what are you thinking? What are you doing? You don't know this guy. Yeah, the transition was was made, and we got to know each other over the period of a few weeks, and very quickly after I knew I had feelings for him, or we could have feelings for each other, I didn't want to, sort of like, go for years behind my husband's back. Even though there was no love in our relationship, I just wanted to tell him as soon as possible. And I basically told him, after a business meeting one day that I've met somebody else. He was abroad. Actually, he was flying back in one night, and I had to wait up till two o'clock in the morning to tell him, because I thought I've got to tell you today, yes. And so he said, first of all, he's like, Who is it? Who is it? And then I said, who it was. And he went, Oh, couldn't be a nicer bloke. 

Sarah Elizabeth  12:08

Oh, wow. Okay, wow.

Vicki La Bouchardiere  12:15

And the really funny thing is that although he's never begged me for me back. He's begged for my partner back to be his accountant several times. 

Sarah Elizabeth  12:25

Oh no, that's Oh my

Vicki La Bouchardiere  12:29

he absolutely loves him.

Sarah Elizabeth  12:36

That's a turn around. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  12:38

Yeah, it is funny when you think about it. But I'm glad it's like that, because it meant that the actual whole process of separating was so much easier, yeah, because, do you know what? I think he was relieved that I said I was going. I think he'd have done it himself if he could be bothered, you know, 

Sarah Elizabeth  12:57

Yeah, and men tend not to anyway, don't they, yeah, men are not very good at ending it unless they have got someone else. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  13:05

I think that that's right, isn't it? 

Sarah Elizabeth  13:07

It's quite unusual for men to just end a relationship, but it sounds like things were really deteriorating for you, like you said you'd had this trial separation. It had gone down a hill. You weren't sharing a bedroom anymore, so you weren't sharing that intimacy anymore, and then the stuff that had then happened in the business as well. Sure, you can see how that then, yeah, ends up deteriorating, can't you? But you said you felt a lot of guilt about that. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  13:35

I did. I did feel on a lot of guilt, and I think if I hadn't have been doing the coaching work on myself as well that I still wouldn't have gone. But I remember there was this moment during my coaching training I had to do, like a residential training period where we were doing this exercise where we were, like, making goals for the future and and planning stuff and all the wonderful things we were going to be doing with our partners. And I remember looking at that page and just wanting to cry because I couldn't see a future. Yeah, you know, it just all looks so bleak, and I that I think everything was starting to shift, that I knew something was going to have to change. 

Sarah Elizabeth  14:19

And horrible feeling, isn't it? 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  14:21

Yeah, even before that conversation I'd had with Kevin, my partner, about how it sounds like you made your mind up, I think I was already going through that process of building myself up, yeah, my self esteem actually thinking good thoughts about myself and not ones of victimisation. And when a new opportunity for happiness was placed in front of me, I just thought I was just coming up to 40, and at the time, I thought 40 was old.

Sarah Elizabeth  14:54

This is my last chance of happiness.

Vicki La Bouchardiere  14:56

Yeah, it just felt like the right thing. Thing to do. I never planned to go straight into another relationship, but when one came along that just felt right. It just felt like the right time to go. And I think even my sister was saying, live on your own for a while. I was like, I've run out of time. I can't I can't be bothered to wait for happiness. I just wanted it. You spent so long without it. 

Sarah Elizabeth  15:23

But I think that's the thing, isn't it? You know, you had a lot on you, yeah. And I think that is the side of it. When you have got low self esteem, you just want to be loved. And if you aren't receiving that, then you can understand, you know, it's not justifying it. It's just saying. It's like, you can concede the circumstances, can't you absolutely? You know, like you say you had a lot of guilt for the children as well, because they obviously called him dad and and your daughter together. It's hard. How did that work out with the co parenting, counter parenting, there's lots of different types of parenting. How did that work out? The children with your ex? 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  16:02

It did work out really well. Actually, I remember the day we told my daughter, she was nine at the time, we put both our wedding rings in a box and gave them to her and say, You're the best thing that's come out of the Oh, I feel a bit emotional, and she was obviously devastated at a time, yes, really. And it broke my heart to see her crying, but she says, you know, in hindsight, she's fine about it, you know. And there were times when she felt it was a good thing that she wasn't with one parent all the time. She She enjoyed a little bit of the dad used to take her out shopping and all sorts, which he never used to when we were live together. Yeah? So, you know, we did have tough times with her, with her mental health. But, I mean, who's to know what? What would she have been like if we hadn't got divorced? Because kids can get just as affected by living in unhappy homes can't exactly that, 

Sarah Elizabeth  17:01

Yes, yeah, it's far better for children to be living in two separate happy homes than it is to be living in one, especially if that gets a bit tumultuous as well, and unpleasant from that side of things that if it starts to turn abusive, then I always think, what are we teaching our Children if we stay in situations like that. So actually, that's a powerful lesson for your daughter. She doesn't have to tolerate being unhappy. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  17:33

It was a big motivator, because we slept in separate rooms. I didn't want her to grow up thinking that was normal, yes, and I remember I must have read a book at the time, because I don't even think there were podcasts around divorce. But I remember one of the biggest bits of advice I took on was, don't speak badly of your spouse to your kids, because it's half half them, you know, and it can be really conflicting for them, regardless of how you feel about the person. Obviously, once I'd made the decision to go, I felt like I didn't have an axe to grind with my ex. I mean, all my axes were being ground during the very unhappy marriage, yeah, but it was like I didn't want to drag up all the reasons why I left, yes and and keep telling the kids, you know, I'm not the bad one, just because I've left, I've left because it was awful. I didn't want to to do that, because one thing I've definitely learned in in hindsight, was that, do you know what? I didn't ask for help enough. I used to be a martyr at home, I used to work myself to the bone and even things like when I had my daughter, my husband went back to work the very next day. I didn't ask him to stay and help. He probably thought, oh well, she's a experienced mum. She's just going to get on with it. But I remember when he left, I just burst into tears. I thought, how could you need me?

Sarah Elizabeth  19:01

I can imagine that, yeah, yeah, 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  19:03

but I can take responsibility now for my own lack of communication, asking for what, what I need, because he wasn't a monster, he wasn't a terrible person. He was just a bloke, 

Sarah Elizabeth  19:15

And he didn't understand how to communicate properly. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  19:18

Yeah? Absolutely, absolutely. So I just the co parenting. I wanted to keep it as civil and as friendly and as easy for everybody as possible. And I know that I suppose I was in a privileged position, because I was the one that did the leaving in the end. Yes, yeah, but actually, I could have dwelled upon all the crap that had led up to that point, and all the reasons why I should feel resentful about him, I chose not to. I chose to focus on the good and to focus on the kids, really, and to put them front and centre. And how would I want my parents to behave if they were to split up because I. I'd seen it happen with other couples where, you know, one parent had to wait outside, and there was never any discussions between the parents as as adults. 

Sarah Elizabeth  20:12

That's not co parenting, 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  20:14

yeah, and I can totally understand why people feel so hurt and so twisted inside they can hardly bear to be in the same room as somebody, but if you're able to just switch the perspective and just think, okay, how is this making little people feel? How can I make this experience better for them? 

Sarah Elizabeth  20:35

Yes, yeah. And I always think as well, whether they're young kids or older kids, I always think they work it out for themselves. What happens? You know, the kids work it all out for themselves. They they can, they can see it. And I've got friends who she had three young children, and she left her ex husband was abusive, and she left when the children were small, and she took a lot of stick for leaving being the one to leave, and she never, ever slated him. He obviously slated her all the time, but she never, ever slated him. She made the effort. He moved to another country. She took the children to the other country to see him like she really, really made the effort. He didn't make any effort, and he was absolutely awful. But she never, ever, ever, slagged him off. And now none of those three as adults speak to him. They and they've all done that off of their own back. She's not had to say one single words, because they've worked it out for themselves. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  21:34

Yeah, yeah. You don't. You don't have to do any work for somebody who is not a pleasant human being. Do you? 

Sarah Elizabeth  21:39

Exactly that? And what about wider family as well? Because that's hard. I think another aspect is, 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  21:45

Yeah, the wider family siblings didn't take it particularly well. Oh, really. I think there was judgement for my behaviour going on that was a little bit hard to deal with. It's because you'd like to think that your family members got your back and support you, and I've got a good relationship with them now with it. So it was just that initial period where I just wanted people to be happy for me that I'd made a choice to do something different. But yeah, maybe at the time, you know, I was going through this life coaching training, and I probably looked like I'd been brainwashed at some point. I was just absolutely determined to be happy, you know, and being gone, you're just weird now and not particularly able to relate to me very well. I think, I think when, when you do make, like major shifts in your perspective. You You can leave other people behind completely, and it just removes you from, from the relationships you used to have with with people my sister used to spend so bless her, she she was constantly like, sponging my snot off her scatter cushions. I said that in my book, because I would go down there and cry about about my terrible relationship, and she was amazingly supportive, which is why I thought she might be even more supportive about about me leaving. Yes, there was probably some kind of suspicion. Not not suspicion, but like, like, What the hell are you doing kind of thing? Because I was going straight to another relationship and in the middle of the life coaching as well. 

Sarah Elizabeth  23:28

Because life coaching originally had such a reputation for being like that, it was a bit like people thought it was a cult, didn't they? Yeah. And actually, funny enough, when I did masters in social work the university that you know, lecturers, and they actually said that that course is known as the divorce course because it it was a Masters, so it wasn't kids at uni, it was mature students, yeah, and they it was actually known as the divorce Course. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  23:59

Was it right? Because everyone is getting enlightened. 

Sarah Elizabeth  24:02

Exactly that I think you do. You start to find yourself and you start to realise that actually this isn't the only way to live. And we're brought up in this like you have to do this, this, this, this, this, and divorce itself. Not so long ago, when I was a kid, if people weren't divorced, people didn't get divorced, you know, and and particularly for women, they couldn't even have a bank account until the early 70s, right? So they couldn't get divorced, and couldn't they've so they had to stay stuck in marriages that were potentially unhappy. And I think that's where you get a lot of the older generation will say, well, couldn't you stick it out? Couldn't you, couldn't you just see, see it through, and, you know, marriages for life and for better or for worse and all of that stuff. But actually, they didn't have the option. So I don't think people understand that then. And I think when you do do something like coaching or social work or something, when you start to understand how the Human mind works and behaviour, that psychology of behaviour, it does put a different light on all of your relationships, not just with intimate relationships, but even your relationships as a parent, as a child yourself, like you know, all of those things. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  25:19

It does put a completely different relationship slant on it, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, it totally does. And, like you say, that the courses that and anything to do with, you know, understanding psychology and personal development, you you're able to understand that you can make choices. You can even choose the thoughts you have about something, which was a concept that I once I knew that concept, it was like, Oh, wow, there's not just one way to look at things, because my my parents were the, exactly the type you describe, miserable together. But yeah, no, we are out. Yes, and so it's almost, it's almost like they just, they just stay together, just to annoy each other. You know, I'm not going.

Sarah Elizabeth  26:09

My friend's parents are like that. They've just been married 60 years. And I was like, everything that was for Diamond's wedding anniversary was all this gushy stuff. And I was like, they're not gushy. And in the end, I found them these mugs that said 60 years married and still annoying the shit out of each other. And they loved them, I know exactly the Go on. Took your parents,

Vicki La Bouchardiere  26:33

that is the model of but I grew up then. I think that's why I stuck it out for so long. Being in an unhappy marriage is because, like, oh, well, that like, oh, well, that's what you do. You've made the vow Tough shit now,

Sarah Elizabeth  26:47

exactly that, yeah, till death do us part,

Vicki La Bouchardiere  26:52

actually realise that there are choices, and sometimes you have to make some very, very brave choices that feel really hard. And it's like, okay, so that I can actually get to the other side of this and be happy, yeah, oh, there's a Newton Faulkner song. I don't know if you've ever heard of Newton Faulkner. He, he had a CD at that 90s I think, I think he only had, like, one really, sort of successful album, but I used to listen to it on repeat, and that there was this one particular song that was all just about getting to the other side. And I'm sorry if I have to hurt you along the way, but I just have to get to the wow. I used to walk the dogs in the morning and listen to this, and just think I need to get to the other side and get over into happiness. I couldn't. I couldn't wait for for the marriage to end by itself. I had to do it myself. It was like, oh god,

Sarah Elizabeth  27:49

yeah. And it's huge, isn't it? It is life changing. You know, when you learn all about, like you say, your thoughts and the way it all works, you know, your brain's job is to keep you safe. So it feels like it's just such a almost life threatening to make a decision so big for yourself, and they don't teach you this at school. I say this all the time. They don't teach you this shit at school, and when you do finally learn it and how to work with your thoughts and how to move through, yeah, all of the shit stuff and the grief and everything else, it is life changing. So, you know, I can completely understand how you ended up in that position. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  28:39

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's all sorts of circumstances aren't there, and you can, you can still get echoes, even when you think you've healed. I've got, I've got a client, actually, who was in a very emotionally and mentally abusive marriage, who actually got divorced, but she said, I can tell when I'm really, really low, because I end up wishing I was back with him again, and that because she's living on her own now, and you know, most of the time doing really great stuff, got good business going. I can tell when I'm low because I wish I was back in that marriage again, because there was something about it that felt safe, even though he was really, really abusive, not physically but emotionally abusive. 

Sarah Elizabeth  29:27

Yeah, it's, it's true, isn't it? It gives a whole other slant to it, doesn't it? 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  29:32

Yeah, but to be able to recognise that it's a process that, you know, it comes, it comes in waves that the good feelings and the bad feelings and but to recognise that there is, there is a healing process that goes on, and grief isn't just associated with dead people. Grief is associated with anything we leave behind in our in our past. 

Sarah Elizabeth  29:57

It's a death of a relationship as well, isn't it?

Vicki La Bouchardiere  30:00

It's, it's still death in that perspective. 

Sarah Elizabeth  30:02

And I think when you, when you do work through that, it is so powerful. Yeah, for me, recently, I've had to see my ex husband a few times at different events, and there was one recently where he's, he got married again a few years ago. Sadly, his wife died last year. It was really sad story, but they had a child together, so he's got a two and a half year old. And we was at this event, and my ex husband was talking to someone, and I was with my friends, and I suddenly realised his baby son, his younger son, had wandered off, and no one had seemed to notice. And as a kind of social work hat, and I just my automatic reaction was to go and get this child, yeah, and pick him up and bring him back and give him to my ex husband. And my friend was like, okay, that's, that's kind of weird. But it was just, there is nothing there. It's so neutral. It's so ambivalent now. And you think, because when you do that work on yourself and show that you can change, yeah, because I would never have been able to do that. A few years ago, in fact, I ended up holding the baby with his wife at a family event. When the baby was about two weeks old. I went over and said, Congratulations, because it was the right thing to do, I think, you know, and his wife was showing me photos and then gave me the baby to hold. And a few years ago, I would never, ever, ever have been able to do that. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  31:44

And I think that's so powerful. I'm so happy for you that that you that you could. Because I think I've heard sort of like resentment is like drinking poison yourself and wishing the other person would die, isn't it? Yes, it's much healthier if you can, just like you say, at the very least, feel neutral, even if you don't feel positive about them ever again, just to, just to have them not, not hurt you, you know, not, not feel those, those emotions, the painful emotions. 

Sarah Elizabeth  32:15

Yeah, and I don't think I don't regret anything that happened, because I've got my sons, I've got my grandchildren as a result of that, I wouldn't have had them, had we not met, got married, and all the rest of it. And actually, I'm so much happier now, right, than I ever could have been if I'd have stayed in that marriage. Because, you know, he cheated and it ended, but then he went through a massive period of wanting me back. And it was me that instigated the actual legal divorce. It was me that was saying, No, we're not going back. That's it. We're done. And it's hard because it does feel the safest thing to do, but I knew somewhere in me, I knew deep down, and you have got to trust your gut and you know, and I think for you, obviously, your accountant, Kevin, isn't it. You're still, you're still with Kevin, aren't you? 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  33:10

I'm still with Kevin, 18 years later. 

Sarah Elizabeth  33:15

Actually, that's right, enough's enough when, when is enough enough in you do know when enough is enough, and that's in all areas of life. You know when a job's run its course. You know when a relationships run its course. You know enough is enough. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  33:31

That's right, there's another great phrase, isn't there? Life is lived forwards, but understood backwards, the other side of that, and just think, you know, there is so much good stuff that would never have happened that's so true. Can it can feel hard though, no, when, when you go in through the woods and it's all very bumpy and unpleasant, you just think, what have I done to deserve this? Haven't you? Yeah, actually, you know, it could be just the the kind of The Crucible, the melting pot, that's taking you to, like, be stronger and just have a better life on the other side of it. 

Sarah Elizabeth  34:09

And I hear people all the time in obviously divorce world, but it's not fair, and it's no it's not it's not fair. But you and only you have the choice and the power to be able to move yourself forwards. You can't control what other people think or do or say or have or any of it, but you can only control what you do and how you move forward. And you know that bitterness is just not a nice place for you to be in, and also, like you say, drinking poison, expecting the other person to die. It doesn't actually affect them. It doesn't actually affect them in any way shape. Or you can say, Stay bitter and angry and resentful, yeah, but they don't care. They've moved on. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  34:56

Yeah, exactly. 

Sarah Elizabeth  34:58

Yeah. It's not. Actually hurting them, hurting you, yeah, and it doesn't say anything about you that they don't care either. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  35:07

You know, that's the important thing to realise, isn't it? Yeah, valuable human without their approval. Yes, yes, yes. So important to remember that that, and it's one of the rules, Kevin, I live by as well, is that we are both in charge of our own happiness. We we don't, we don't look to the other person to make us happy. It's like, if we're happy individuals, then we're going to have a happy relationship. 

Sarah Elizabeth  35:36

That's exactly how it should be, I think, as well. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  35:38

Yeah, yeah. So that that, you know, it feels so, so good to sort of get to my my later years in life, when you get over over 50, you kind of lose count. Don't you

Sarah Elizabeth  35:50

stop counting nearly

Vicki La Bouchardiere  35:54

60 at some point, it's looming. 

Sarah Elizabeth  35:57

It's looming. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  35:58

Yeah, I'd like to think I actually feel younger now than I did when I was coming up to 40. To 40. 

Sarah Elizabeth  36:03

I feel like that. It's weird, isn't it? It's a strange thing. And when my mum was in her 50s, I mean, she died when she was 61 my mum, so I don't obviously know what she would have been like later on, but in her 50s, she was kind of like an old mum. She wasn't anything like I am, or anyone that's in their 50s that I know it's like that older generation. Yeah, I think isn't it 50 is the new 30 or 40 or something? You know, let's go with that. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  36:36

I think you know, if anybody who is younger listening to this, who may be to actually have a little bit of faith that in 20 years time, you might feel younger than you do now, and you might still feel like you've still got a lot to give. Yes, yes, yeah. I feel like I'm most people sort of think my age be thinking about retirement. I feel like I'm just starting. 

Sarah Elizabeth  36:57

I feel like that. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  36:59

great feeling. 

Sarah Elizabeth  37:00

Yeah, it is a great feeling. I've got years. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  37:03

Yeah, we're lucky to live in a society where we've we can live healthily into 80s 90s, can't we? It's, it's like, I want to enjoy the rest of my life and be happy the rest of my life. 

Sarah Elizabeth  37:15

Absolutely, I'm here for that. So obviously, talking about, you've got a long time left yet, and also learning so much about how our brains work and our thoughts work. You've just recently qualified as a hypnotherapist, haven't you? 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  37:31

That's right, yeah, and I feel like it's giving me another edge to my coaching work. Yeah, it feels so powerful, because what it does is it takes you into your imagination where you're able to make neuroplasticity, or you're able to make changes through things like mental rehearsal of of difficult situations, you're able to grow inside your own imagination. What it does is it kind of fast tracks the coaching process. I've coached people through self esteem and confidence building and that kind of thing, and given them little tasks to do, and they come back and then report on how they've gone. But what? What hypnotherapy does say? Say, for example, imagine going into a family party room, where your ex was, when you felt at your worst with him, where you wouldn't have picked up the baby, and that kind of thing. Yes, yeah. What hypnotherapy can do is it can take you through mental rehearsal, where you you go into that situation in your mind, anything that might cause you anxiety. Anxiety is just just just one of the things it can help deal with. It can give you that kind of safe exposure to experiencing all the negativity and actually fixing it in your brain and putting the thoughts right and feeling how different that feels in your body when you've changed your thoughts about a situation, 

Sarah Elizabeth  39:01

Wow. And it just taps into that. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  39:04

I would, I would recommend it as a vehicle for for healing, for anybody who's listening to this, if you, if you've thought maybe that you need a little bit of help, you know, counselling and therapy is one thing I've done. I've done all the things, you know, the things, including coaching as well. But I feel in terms of getting some speedy results, because hypnotherapy can generally sort issues in like four to six sessions. It's quite fast sort of process, yes, but it's it's powerful. It's really, really powerful in terms of being able to make big shifts in your mind really, really quick. I recommend that if anybody does look for hypnotherapy, that they do look for a qualified, registered practitioner. It's not a regulated profession. So there are people out there who don't who do a like a seven day course on Udemy and call themselves a Hypnotherapist. I.

Sarah Elizabeth  39:59

Avoid them. Okay, 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  40:01

they might be great, but you take a risk, at least you're going some with somebody who's who's got a professionally recognised qualification that they leave, at least they're going to be aware of your welfare and know, know how, how to deal with you, 

Sarah Elizabeth  40:16

yeah, because that's really important, especially if you're going through it for healing, 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  40:19

absolutely, if you're, if you're going for any sort of anxiety or depression, you want to be with a professional who knows what they're doing. Yes, don't put any of that to chance, you know. But I would recommend the the process to to anybody really, you know. 

Sarah Elizabeth  40:35

Yeah, I've had hypnotherapy a few times over my lifetime, and I've got some hypnotherapy audios as well, right? So if I leave your link in the show notes, would people be able to contact you if they were interested in hypnotherapy for healing? 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  40:50

Of course. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  40:50

Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah. And also, I can give you a link to my book, How to live with a dickhead. I had to live with a dickhead.

Sarah Elizabeth  41:01

I absolutely love the title. I'm here for the title. And you've, you've got a link to a free audio book, haven't you? So I'll put that in the show notes as well, because that'd be so good. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  41:11

Yeah, I wrote it 10 years ago. And obviously, you know, things you do a long time ago you do get a bit critical about, and there were things I would do differently about it now, but I'm still proud of it. I think that was part of my healing of going through my earlier life as feeling like I was a victim. That that book signifies to me, the change that happened when I really started to become aware of being in charge of my own happiness, and that just because somebody else was behaving in a certain way, it didn't have to impact me 

Sarah Elizabeth  41:44

Hear that completely. Yeah, you should be very proud of it as well. Yeah, I'm excited to read it. And talking of books as well. Obviously, you know, I run the divorce Book Club, which is a monthly membership podcast based book club based on divorce relationships and all things personal development, it's fucking therapy in disguise. But we love a bit of healing over there. So I think if you know how to live with a dickhead could quite well make its way into the book club. Have you got a personal development book that you recommend for listeners that would be able to help them let in the way that you have turned their pain into power. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  42:23

Turn their pain to power. Well, the book that really made a big change to me was a real old classic called Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. And some people think it's all about, you know, get rich quick and all that kind of thing. It's really not. And I guess you, you've read it as well by the look, 

Sarah Elizabeth  42:43

yeah, yeah, on the bookshelf.

Vicki La Bouchardiere  42:46

I mean, it's very much a book of its of its time. You know, you have to, you have to bear in mind that it was written over, over 100 years ago, but the message in it is so powerful. And it was actually referenced in a CD that the guy who was taking my business into insolvency gave me, he was the insolvency practitioner, and he could see that was struggling. And he said, Why don't you listen to this CD? And it was a CD from Earl Nightingale, who's another old classic guide. So Earl Nightingale was a big pioneer of personal development back in the 50s. He threw up in the 1920s in depression in America, and he wondered why that. There were some people who seemed to be really struggling, and others doing really well. And he was on a constant quest to find out why this was so. And he discovered, Think and Grow Rich. And he calls it The Strangest Secret. He made an audio recording called the stranger secret. You can find it on YouTube. It's about 30 minutes long, I think. And I played this CD. I was given a burned CD of this recording when I was probably at one of my lowest points, the business was failing. We had a we had a great big house with it, with a huge mortgage. It was my dream home, and I knew that something was was gonna happen, and I was trying my best to hold on to it all, but this, this helped me realise that I just needed to to let go and move on, because it was the message. The Strangest Secret is, we become what we think about. And that was one of Napoleon Hill's phrases from Think and Grow Rich. Yes, I realised that I was just feeling like a victim, like life was out to get to me, like, like the world is a horrible place where horrible things happen, and I wasn't, I wasn't good enough, that that was what being in a bad relationship makes you, makes you feel, is that I'm not good enough? Yes, and I realised I had to, I had to turn, turn my thoughts upside down, and I dug out all my old Tony Robbins CDs, and I plugged them on my headphones, and I listened to them night after night after night, and just drip fed positivity into my head so that I could become what I thought about, that I could become a positive person and make great changes and have something else to aim for. And in the end, I just thought, I just need to, I need to get, get out of this house. I'd need to stop holding on to this big house that I, you know, that I was rapidly falling behind with on the mortgage payments and everything. Yeah, just just cut the ties and move on and think about what life is going to be like in the future. And that's when I decided to be a coach. And the coaching led to the, you know, changes in the relationship. And, yeah, it I went through a whole process of change by just remembering that we become what we think about. So if anybody's listening to this and that they're feeling kind of beaten up by the world, and it's not fair and all this kind of thing. It's like, the more you allow those thoughts into your head, the more they're gonna just just poison your brain with negativity. And I don't want to be like a Pollyanna. You've got to think positive all the time, because outdated thinking, yeah, sometimes you just have to accept, feel neutral, move on completely. I read it probably once a year. Think and Grow Rich. 

Sarah Elizabeth  46:30

Do you I have to read it again. I've only read it once, 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  46:34

yeah, but it's, it talks about, you know, setting goals. It talks about having good people around you and it and it's, it just, it just takes you into your future, and it gives you faith and hope that there is something more for you in in the future. And there's almost a little bit of hypnotherapy goes on with the imagining things as you want them to be. Because when, when you can actually clearly visualise what you want in your future, you're you're gonna be much more likely to reach it than if you just wait for life to happen to you. So I think that that would be my number one recommendation for amazing people going that is like, get back into some old school stuff. There's, there's lots of new stuff around now, 

Sarah Elizabeth  47:23

Based on the same kind of, 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  47:25

yes, yes. It's regurgitated classics. 

Sarah Elizabeth  47:28

Yeah. It's also a form of, you can choose what you become. You can think what you write. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  47:36

That's right. And it's just just, just powerful stuff. 

Sarah Elizabeth  47:39

It's an amazing, powerful stuff and very powerful message to leave us on. So thank you. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  47:46

You are very, very welcome. It's been a real pleasure. 

Sarah Elizabeth  47:50

I will leave the link for you and your how to live with the dickhead book in the show notes as well. But thank you, Vicki, honestly, that was, you know, such rawness, and that was really powerful. So thank you so very much. 

Vicki La Bouchardiere  48:04

You're very welcome, lovely to be here 

Sarah Elizabeth  48:06

And that's what healing looks like, right? Isn't it? No fluff, just as it is. Exactly if today's episode sparks something in you, if you're feeling a little bit more seen and a little bit more grounded or just a little less alone, take that as your sign to keep going, right? You do better than you think. So I will be back in your beautiful earbuds again next week. Until then, be kind to yourself. And if you can't come, stick with us, we'll sort you out loads of love. Bye.