EP61 The Separate Space Chapter: Your Pathway to an Informed Divorce

Hello and welcome to this week’s episode where I’m super delighted to introduce you to Amanda Bell. 

Amanda is a divorce lawyer by background, and with her co-founder Victoria, has created an AMAZING, affordable platform designed to help you navigate the entire divorce process with confidence and clarity. Whether you’re facing legal challenges, co-parenting with a high-conflict ex, or trying to get a handle on your finances, Separate Space offers expert guidance every step of the way.

You can check out Separate Space website here: https://www.separatespace.co.uk/

And their Instagram here:https://www.instagram.com/separatespace/

In the episode we go into:

- The concept behind Separate Space: an accessible tool designed to empower individuals with the information and resources they need to navigate divorce.

- Why divorce impacts every part of your life, not just the legal side, and how the Separate Space platform helps manage both the emotional and practical aspects of the process.

- How Separate Space offers a personalised pathway for your unique divorce journey, helping you handle everything from financial planning to co-parenting dynamics, even if you can’t afford one-to-one legal advice right now.

- The importance of understanding your financial situation, why pensions matter, and how to protect yourself legally during a separation.

- Amanda's advice for anyone facing a sudden or complex divorce: get informed, take control, and don’t rush into decisions without understanding the long-term impact.

I honestly can’t recommend this platform enough - I WISH I’d had something like this…. It really is a torch in the divorce shitstorm 🔦

Check out the episode to hear all about Separate Space and how this may help you 🩷

And whilst we’re talking empowerment through the shitshow, we’ve chosen November’s book over in the Divorce Book Club.

How to Heal a Broken Heart: From Rock Bottom to Reinvention *via ugly crying on the bathroom floor, by Rosie Green 💚

You can check out the book here: 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08GG7BC79/ref=nosim?tag=thedivorceb00-21

This is the story of Rosie's own divorce shitshow interspersed with advice, book recommendations and sprinkled throughout with humour. 

❤️

I CAN”T WAIT!

I’d love to have you join us for this one 📚

We start on 1 November 📚

Link to join below ⬇️

Do let me know if you want any more details about the book club - or indeed about anything divorce/break-up related.

Until next week then you absolute QUEEN 👑 sending you loads of love,

Sarah x

🌸

THE DIVORCE BOOK CLUB
 
https://patreon.com/thedivorcebookclub

FREE Guide to the 10 MUST read divorce books after divorce

https://thedivorcebookclub.com/free-resources/

INSTAGRAM

https://www.instagram.com/thedivorcechapter

Chapters

• 0:00 Background to Separate Space
• 4:02 A Pathway designed by Experts
• 6:22 Like a Torch in the Dark
• 7:13 Understanding the Jargon
• 9:27 The Key Challenges
• 12:34 Project Management for Divorce
• 16:57 Finding out more
• 20:25 Great Advice
• 27:42 Getting Informed
• 30:47 4000 Weeks

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Sarah Elizabeth, Amanda Bell

Sarah Elizabeth  00:00

Hello and welcome to the divorce chapter podcast. And this week we have the fabulous Amanda from separate space. Amanda is a divorce lawyer by background who has worked with hundreds of couples going through the separation process, and is the co founder of separate space, which is an amazing platform that really sets out all the pathways of understanding the legal and practical jargon and process that we're going to come on and talk about. So welcome Amanda.

Amanda Bell  00:26

Thanks so nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Sarah Elizabeth  00:29

Thank you for coming on. So can you tell us a bit about yourself and your background that kind of led to you doing this work? 

Amanda Bell  00:36

Yeah, of course. So my name is Amanda, and I run and have co founded separate space, which is the affordable platform for divorce. My background is as a divorce and family lawyer, so I worked for many years at one of the top tier London law firms practicing family law, helping wealthy and often high profile people deal with their finances on divorce and their parenting arrangements after separation. And then I got to the age and stage where people around me in my personal life were starting to get divorced, so close friends family, and I saw really two things. One is the reality of divorce, you know, not just what the professionals see, but the crying on the kitchen floor. You know, it is a problem that impacts every aspect of your life. It is not just a legal problem. The legal bits are important, but so much comes with it. And I also saw, of course, I knew that divorce lawyers are expensive, but the upshot of not being able to afford that lawyer by your side is really quite significant, because not knowing what to do or how to do it is hugely stressful. It often means the conflict is higher. We know that's bad for children, and you know, the research tells us actually, particularly for women, if people are uninformed, they're more likely to get a bad deal financially, which impacts them for years to come. So what we've done with separate space is set out to create an affordable way of getting the information and guidance that you need to understand what you need to do and how to do it, and really key to that is the information that you need to make informed decisions. Because if you make an informed decisions, they are more likely to be good ones.

Sarah Elizabeth  02:33

Yeah, completely. That's amazing. That's a really good way of moving into that, isn't it, because I think you're right. What you said that it kind of touches on every aspect of your life. I often call this time like the earthquake, because it's your whole world as you know it is just a pile of dust on the floor and you don't know where to start. So that's a really good good thing. Can you tell us a bit more then about the separate Space Platform and how it helps people going through this process?

Amanda Bell  03:02

Yeah, of course. So I think the first thing to say is that it's created by experts. So So I have my family law background. My co founder is also a family lawyer, working at the forefront of family law, and we've worked with experts across finance, child psychology, relationships. We've also spoken to some head teachers about how school can support children, you know, so is that sort of 360 created, and the platform responds to individual circumstances, to give you a personalised pathway, so you can see what the destination is, but you can also see steps that you need to take to get there. And for each of these steps, we've got a really detailed guide with templates if you need them to get the thing done. So that could be anything from helping you kind of think about budget going forwards, you know what your day to day living costs are, to emails. That might be an email to school to tell them what's going on and give them the information they need to support your kid, or it might be an email about a pensions value, or it might be a guide to help you fill out a court form. So it's this sort of package of not only that personalised pathway, but a curated package of guides on templates to help you get it done. And it's not about replacing one to one. Legal advice. Many of our members actually have lawyers, but it's about if you do have a budget for a lawyer, to use that money really effectively. So when you have that precious, expensive time with a professional, you're asking the questions that are going to really add value and move you forward, and it's helping you do more of the process yourself. We also have many members that can't afford any one to one, and it will put you in a much, much better space than using chat, GPT or Google, because not only is it all reliable information, but it's relevant to you. Yes. It's, it's quite an exciting project, because it's doing things in a new way. And what's really wonderful about it is we're getting excellent feedback. You know, we have people, people use a lot of metaphors in our in our user interviews. But

Sarah Elizabeth  05:16

I love, I love a metaphor.

Amanda Bell  05:19

You know, actually, some give me goosebumps. Some have actually made me cry, because people say things like, you know, it's a it's a life raft in the shitstorm of divorce. And don't, you know, divorce is a shitstorm. And you know, someone had said to me, I felt like I was deep in a dark mine, and I couldn't see where to go, you know, I couldn't see anything. And separate space is like a torch, doesn't it? Oh, wow. It feels really good that it's working. 

Sarah Elizabeth  05:51

Wow, I really feel that. 

Amanda Bell  05:52

Yeah, yeah. And it's available from 25 pounds a month. So, you know, as a lawyer, pounds an hour. So it really is that it's, it's an accessible way to get the information and guidance you need. Yeah, totally,

Sarah Elizabeth  06:09

because you're absolutely right. You, you know, when I went through my divorce, I'd say probably 80% of, if not more of the conversations that I was having with my lawyer on the phone was not actually around the legal part itself, it was all of those other bits, because he wasn't responding to the divorce papers, for instance, so he wasn't responding to the petition. So so it was like, Well, what's going on? And how can we and all the other stuff that was going on at the time, and that was kind of, she didn't really need to know all of that, or help with any of that, because it was just like just getting him to bloody sign the thing, you know, 

Amanda Bell  06:48

It's so stressful and it's so overwhelming, and it's just kind of, you know, as professionals working in the space, it becomes just common sense, And, you know, all these this jargon just becomes part of the language that we're using every day. But if you're new to this, at a time when everything is changing, yeah, and you're extremely stressed, yeah, it's hard to get your head around. It's hard even to know where to start. Um,

Sarah Elizabeth  07:16

absolutely. Especially, I think it's not just the divorce, is it? It's like the all the complexities, so it's like, all the finances, all the, you know, when there's children involved, and even the things like contacting the schools, no, it's something you've probably never had to do before, and it's Yeah, and it's how to help your child in the best way when you've potentially got a high conflict partner, yeah, yeah, in a situation that is just like, you say, a shitstorm that's that's blowing up, and you don't quite know which way to turn first, right. So

Amanda Bell  07:52

completely agree. And I think it's, it's scary anyway, because change is scary. And, you know, in my career, I've worked with hundreds of people going through divorce, and for some people, it's their decision. For others, it's a decision that's been made for them. For some people, it's been coming for a long time, and for others, it's completely out the blue. And what makes it scarier at a time of intense stress is the lack of knowledge. You know, that kind of knowledge is power. Yeah? Is very, very true in this space. So

Sarah Elizabeth  08:27

what? So what are the sort of key challenges that you think that people come to you with or come onto the platform with?

Amanda Bell  08:33

So some people come on the platform to get a better understanding of what this might mean. Because, you know, going back to that point about for some people, this is a sudden decision that's been taken out their hands. For others, they've maybe been unhappy in a relationship for years, and they're trying to make that decision. And so understanding what the process might look like, and what life on the other side might look like, financially and practically, in terms of not just where you're living, but how much you're seeing your kids. You know, for a lot of people, particularly women, it can impact what they're doing with their time. You know, there's a lot of women that go back to work or increase hours to get enough money to live in this new arrangement. So we do, we do have people coming on kind of just doing their research and getting informed. Others have maybe spoken to a solicitor and had a bit of advice, and it's just too expensive to have that solicitor by their side. And they have, they have this budget, they've had a first meeting. They will get some more help one to one later, but in the meantime, and that meantime can be 12 months or more. Yeah, they're on their own. So the platform is a way to have, you know, we're not giving one to one, but that kind of hand holding through the process, yeah, to feel more in control. So we have a lot, a lot of people like that. And I think in terms of the challenges. Is, you will know, because we've been through it, but there are, there are a lot of challenges thrown out. Going through a divorce, you know, it's not just how much money you've got in your bank account and how often you're seeing your kids. It's this whole sense of identity and getting used to that things can impact kind of the people around you, your friends, your family, how they're interacting with you, you know, shift, and then the legal and financial bit is very unnerving. So I think if people can get on top of that, can understand the steps that they need to take to do this properly, to become in the best possible position going forward, yeah, that takes the stress down a notch, yeah,

Sarah Elizabeth  10:40

yeah, so. And I think it's really useful because you do it in a way of almost like a timeline, don't you? So it's do this next, do this next, do this next. But like you say, it's not advice, but it's kind of, it is a torch in the dark, isn't it? It's really it's so useful because it's not just the legal, the financial, it's literally the practical, the emotional, it's all of it, isn't it?

Amanda Bell  11:04

And it's a way to sort of sounds a bit cold, but project manage the divorce. The reality is that getting divorced also comes with a shit loads of admin,

Sarah Elizabeth  11:14

unbelievable amount of admin. Yeah,

Amanda Bell  11:18

and life is busy. Yes, people don't have time for a part time job, which is managing a divorce, and

Sarah Elizabeth  11:25

you haven't got the emotional bandwidth either. You just haven't got the capacity in the in the in the head to think about it. Yeah, exactly.

Amanda Bell  11:33

So it's not just delivering the information that you need in sort of bite size pieces. It's also a lot of people use it as a sort of project management tool, because you can take off these tasks as you're doing it, so you're seeing the progress through the interactive pathway. So you can see that you're moving moving. You may well have 20 things you're going to have to do in the next year to get through it, but you can also say, Okay, right now, I need to focus on these two and take them off. There is something lovely about ticking things off.

Sarah Elizabeth  12:04

Totally, totally agree. Yeah, that really works with my brain and my I like the order, you know, like a to do list, like a to do list, because it is so overwhelming, you know, you try to think about all the things that you've got to do, and you just get caught by overwhelm. So it really sets it out for you, right? 

Amanda Bell  12:22

Yeah, I think it's quite calming, yeah. Also, at a time where everything feels so out of control, it helps you feel more like you're in the driving seat. 

Sarah Elizabeth  12:32

Love that. I absolutely love that. So you've got a really good FAQ section on your website, haven't you? So is that the best place to start? Where would you say would be the best place to start once people sort of sign up to the platform?

Amanda Bell  12:48

Yeah, so I guess to take a step back before you sign up, you probably want to know a bit more about it. Yeah, absolutely. Have a dig around on the website. We'd have an Instagram page where we put sort of tips and little scripts and bits of information that people find useful. We also run free webinars a couple of times a month. The topic changes, but they tend to be aimed at people at the beginning of the process. You know, you've started, or you're thinking about divorce, you're in the very early days of a separation, kind of what is divorce actually going to entail. And we give people some actionable tips to go away. So do sign up to one of those webinars? Best way to get on the invite list is to sign up to our newsletter list. And we also have a free divorce checklist, which, again, it's designed for people right at the beginning of the process, and helps people think about those some of it is admin practical. Some of it's legal. So for example, if you've got a joint account, there are things you need to do right at the beginning to make sure that money is protected. You know, hints and tips that are really actionable, that will just get you organized and ready. So you can download that from our website. So I would suggest that if you're kind of in the early stages, you do all those things. All those things are free. And then if you want to join up, you can do that from our website. And it's, it's 25 pounds a month. If you buy six months, or if you want to have a rolling contract, it's 39 pounds a month, and can cancel at any time. 

Sarah Elizabeth  14:10

It's just brilliant. Honestly, I wish I'd had something like this, because there is just no, there is just no way to go, is there? It's, you know, you can get all these different books and there's so much information. Like you say, you go on chat GPT and and you go off down a complete minefield. 

Amanda Bell  14:27

It's just using chat GPT is just, just be careful, because that is scraping the internet worldwide. Yes, absolutely. Divorce law is very variable around the world, and, you know, even in Scotland, is quite different from England and Wales. So, right, the source of information is important. And I think one of the things that I've learned from from speaking to people who don't have a lawyer, is there is so much information online, and it's also such. Variability, exactly, quality of information. Be careful on that. And we've tried to take out a load. You know, all of that work through separate space. But yeah, if you're not a member of separate space, but you're doing your research, please be careful about the source. 

Sarah Elizabeth  15:15

yeah, because separate space covers England and Wales, right? 

Amanda Bell  15:18

Exactly. Yeah. 

Sarah Elizabeth  15:19

So the best place then, would be for people to come to you, to listen to the webinars, come along to webinars, have a look at the stuff on the site, because you've got, you've got quite a lot of blog posts on your site as well, haven't you? 

Amanda Bell  15:30

Yeah, we've got blogs on our site. We post regularly on Instagram. We send out a newsletter a couple of times a month. And we're always trying to do with these things is give people some value. Give people some help. And we know the questions that come up all the time, so we're really trying to help with those. And also it can be, you know, our expertise in terms of Vicky and I, who found it, or in legal side, experts across the board, but sometimes they're not legal questions, like you mentioned, you know, sometimes it's kind of, my ex keeps hassling me to do a deal, yeah? And I'm not ready to do a deal, or I don't understand the financial picture, you know, yeah, don't sign that deal. It's okay to give yourself some time. But what we try and do is help people, you know, give people sort of the words to basically get their extra back on. Yes,

Sarah Elizabeth  16:21

yeah, yeah. It was so needed. Isn't it? Yeah, yeah, because

Amanda Bell  16:26

that on the finances, the deal you do will impact you for years to come, so it is worth doing it properly, yeah,

Sarah Elizabeth  16:35

absolutely, because it, it is those kind of, I guess the nuances that you just would not even ever think about until you go through it, you just wouldn't even think about it. And I think one of the other challenges is that if you're divorcing someone that's potentially been abusive, that adds a whole nother layer of challenge, because you're going through the trauma of the abuse you've experienced, and then quite often, you've got some form of post separation abuse, where, where they are, hassling you, where they're, where you can be quite scared of them, where they might be trying to use the legal process, or any other process, use the children in some kind of way to get at you, because they're losing control, right? So they, they kind of want that control back. And it's terrifying. It's really, it's really quite scary to be in that position and have absolutely no idea what to say or do. And I think when you're that vulnerable and that low, there is the risk of just kind of, God, whatever. Do do what you want, you almost give in, because it's just like, I'm just exhausted. I can't do this anymore. It's just you can't keep fighting. So it's also giving someone almost a bit of the tools and a bit of the thing to protect themselves, a little bit more as well, right?

Amanda Bell  18:06

Yeah, completely. And if you have listeners listening to this who have experienced domestic abuse, there is a page on our website with a list of resources and charities that can help you may be eligible for legal aid. So check that out. There's a link to the government page where you can check if you're eligible. But I completely agree with all of what you've just said, that you know, some people experience that abuse through the co parenting dynamics, yes, and that is really, really tricky.

Sarah Elizabeth  18:40

Yeah, Legally Nik came on the podcast a while back and we talked to her. She's brilliant. I love her. She she talks a lot about that co parenting dynamic, and I know that's a massive focus of her work as well.

Amanda Bell  18:53

Actually, a really excellent resource, phenomenal, isn't it, from all those sort of not just, not just the the knowledge, but feeling and power. Yes, those boundaries in place absolutely. And we've, we've got some posts on our Instagram page exactly that in relation to the finances in particular. You know, it's okay if someone's pestering you to make a decision or or do something on the finances. It's okay to say, I don't know right now. I need more time. I'll come back to this. Yeah, to close that down, it's okay to say, if you continue speaking to me like this, we're going to have to end the conversation. You know, conversations about the divorce, whether that's arrangements, about your kids, about money, about practicalities, who's living, where all of that other stuff, they don't have to be spontaneous. It's okay to sort of schedule those meetings, yes, and treat it almost like a work project. Yeah, yeah. You know, you don't have to pick up the phone. You don't need to respond to every text as it pings through. It's okay to be very bad. Boundary about it, and on that front in terms of kind of negotiating with your ex, because that, that is what it comes down to, yeah, you know, be prepared. Put a tiny, you know, be like, Okay, we're going to spend half an hour now. I would suggest not doing it in the evening at home, where you might be tempted to get a glass of wine in my right

Sarah Elizabeth  20:26

now, yeah, okay,

Amanda Bell  20:30

it's likely to go on and on. So yeah, you know, if you can find half an hour in a neutral place, go going for a walk can be quite good, because it can feel less intense. Have a tying bound, read and give yourself some space on either side. You know, don't be running from half an hour with your ex talking about money into a work meeting too much you can only take be kind to yourself. You know this is a big deal, what you're going through and having to manage, and you need to look after yourself. And yes, your parent, that becomes even more important. Yes, you need to be okay. So the kids are okay. So I think it's okay to be strategic about it all. Yeah, need to be a negative thing being strategic. Now

Sarah Elizabeth  21:10

I love, I love the idea that it's almost like project management, like you say, it gives some order to the chaos. 

Amanda Bell  21:18

Yeah, because it is chaos to estimate how difficult it is emotionally, yes, you know, I know how difficult it is, and I think that's one of the things that makes divorce so tricky, because you're having to make these huge life changing decisions, yeah, at a time, but it's actually quite difficult to think clearly. Yes,

Sarah Elizabeth  21:39

yeah, completely. It's really hard. What would you what would you say is the leading question that people ask, or one of the leading questions

Amanda Bell  21:50

when I was acting as a lawyer in a first client meeting, it would be about the children? Yes, there is this real fear that divorce is gonna mess up the kids. Yeah, that's not what the research tells us. High conflict, high prolonged conflict, is bad for kids. A hell of a lot more Yeah, divorce itself is not Yeah. So you know, managing your divorce in an informed, calm way is the best possible thing you can do for your kids? Yes. And another thing people worry about quite a lot is money in in this sort of in between stage, you know, not divorce, but they've separated. How we going to run the life during that period? Yeah. And that's something that it's sensible to have upfront conversations about, you know, how much is this going to cost us? Where are we going to live? How are we going to pay for that? Yeah, it becomes tricky. That's something people worry about. 

Sarah Elizabeth  22:51

Yeah, I couldn't understand that, because it is. You're at this in between stage where your whole life has changed. You're trying to negotiate a new way. But actually, it might not be the end result either. So it's really quite difficult, but it is

Amanda Bell  23:07

helpful to have, you know, I know it's not easy to agree things, but do have a plan for this sort of the next nine months? Yes, nine to 12 months? Yeah, that plan, and then you can negotiate the bigger picture, yeah. Because otherwise, what happens to people is they're sort of fighting fires on both fronts. There's how we're going to pay the rent this month, and so, you know, where are we going to live later? Yes, yes. And that becomes a lot. So I'd say that just trying to think the the other things that are a real stressor near the beginning. I mean, for a lot of people right now, it is not affordable to live separately while they're

Sarah Elizabeth  23:47

Yeah there's been a whole rise in this hasn't there?

Amanda Bell  23:50

impact on that. And you know, whereas 30 years ago, people tend to live closer to their immediate family, so you know, their their mom or grandparents might be down the road. That's not the case now. So I come across a lot of people who are living with their ex, yeah, while trying to deal with all the emotional stuff and get an agreement on the finances and CO parent in that space, we've got a blog on our website with some tips about that, which is worth checking out if you're in that situation. We did. We got some tips, actually, from a relationships therapist, from the lawyer's perspective, and also from people who've been through it and kind of having your own space, having boundaries around, you know, this is my bedroom, and you won't come in here, and vice versa. You know, maybe having a kind of Rota, it sounds a bit cold, and a rota around who can use the kitchen when, or if you can go and stay with a friend forever that weekend while you're within the home, because it emotionally is grueling. Living under the same roof.

Sarah Elizabeth  24:55

I can't even imagine having had to go through that like I lived through. With his mum as well. We had a granny annex on our house, and that's why I ended up moving out, because I called it the Museum of our marriage, because it was just kind of like this, like leftover of what was left. I can't even imagine having had to say that we're in that situation. So, yeah, 100% and there's just, there's just such an increase in it isn't there. And here a lot of, lot of couples as well end up kind of renting a cheap room somewhere and going backwards and forwards. So that sort of, when it's your time with the children, you're in the family home, and then you leave to go, and it's just a whole heap of challenge that you just don't even think about when you think about divorce, right? So, yeah, completely. So what would be your one key piece of advice? So if someone came to you today and said, Oh, my God, I'm going for divorce, my husband has told me he wants a divorce, where do I start? What do I do? What would be your one key piece of advice to get them started.

Amanda Bell  26:05

So I think it's about getting informed. Not only does that set you up for getting a better outcome, but it also reduces stress, because if you are informed, you feel more in control. You feel like you've got more autonomy over this process. So getting informed, yeah, for sure, and then a more kind of further along the line. You know, it's not for the first few weeks when it's just all entirely new, but getting on top of the finances, you know, it's boring, it's painful. You may be in a situation where, actually, you haven't really been the one dealing with finances. You know, it's quite I wasn't in a marriage for one person to take the lead on that and one person take the lead on other bits. You know, that's really typical, but the law is on your side there, because you have a right to have full information about the financial picture. Yeah, so it's okay to assert that right, and to take your time, and if there are bits that you don't understand, whether that's about income or the mortgage, yeah, the rental agreement, it's okay to ask the questions. It is really important that you understand that financial picture before you do a deal.

Sarah Elizabeth  27:29

And pensions as well. Pensions is another one that's just this.

Amanda Bell  27:33

Pensions complicated and something people tend to ignore, and I think it's ignored partly because retirement feels forever away for a lot of people. Yeah, it doesn't feel that relevant. But pensions can actually be the most valuable thing you and your ex home. And the other reason, thinking about it, often from the female perspective, is it can be this feeling that the man's pension belongs to him because he's been the one going out to work and contribute to that pension. But the reality is that money has been able to go into that pension pot because it hasn't

Sarah Elizabeth  28:12

you stayed at home and looked after the children, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Amanda Bell  28:17

So. So it is it. Pensions are a really key bit of the financial picture, and they must be taken into account. Yes, and so getting valuations for them is important. It can take ages to get a valuation, so early on it's worth getting in the requests to get the valuations that it doesn't slow everything down. That's particularly the case of public sector pensions. But yes, I Yes, completely agree. And really important piece of

Sarah Elizabeth  28:44

the picture. Really important. Yeah. Thank you so much. I just wanted to ask you, as you know, I run the divorce Book Club, which is a monthly membership type podcast based on all things divorce, personal development and moving on and relationships and all the all the stuff, have you had a book that's had a big impact on you? And if so, why? What is it? What's the book? 

Amanda Bell  29:08

Think books that have impact on you vary depending on what shit Yes, and nowadays, I tend to listen to books more than reading parenting tasks. Right about 18 months ago, I listened to a book called 4000 weeks by Oliver Bergman. Oh, and the the the concept is, if we're lucky, we're on this planet for 4000 weeks. So it's about using, you know, how do you use your time intentionally, you know, and it's really interesting, and it's, it was, it's interesting for me from a work perspective, because actually doing something that is innovative, that is dealing with an old, an old problem in a new way with separate space, is quite harsh. Yes, my goodness, does it feel like a good use? Of my time and members on the platform, and they're giving us this wonderful feedback. And it is, it is having a really positive impact on people that feels like a good way to spend my days. But also, I think, thinking about all of the amazing people I'm lucky enough to meet in this job for those people who actually divorce, separation has maybe been on the cards. Maybe not, you know, not sure, not feeling fulfilled. Maybe actually feeling quite miserable. Maybe their partner feeling miserable too. Maybe it's not doing their kids any good. You know, 4000 weeks. Who do you want to surround yourself with you know what? That's so good, being intentional. I think it's, I think it's quite powerful message. And the book is, the book's good.

Sarah Elizabeth  30:48

I'd recommend that's, that's, I've just written that down. That's going on on the to be read list. That's 100% going on there. I love things like that because it is so true, because it really does make you think, you know, our time is our one precious commodity that we cannot get back and how we use it is such a empowering way to think about it and moving forward, isn't it? Yeah,

Amanda Bell  31:13

and I think I see that with you know, I think separate parents are just so incredible. And that recognition that actually childhood is short, yes, and you got one shot at this, yes, and actually your ex may be a complete pain in them. And you know they know how to press your buttons, and you probably know theirs, right, yep. But actually, you can stay focused on your children, which I know is easier said than done. You know, we're not robots, we're human. No. Perfection is unachievable. For the best part, you can keep it child focused. Then those weeks, I don't know, don't know how many weeks,

Sarah Elizabeth  32:00

18, summer holidays.

Amanda Bell  32:03

No, I think, I think it can be quite at the right time. It can be quite a useful way to to frame things.

Sarah Elizabeth  32:09

Yes, definitely, definitely. Thank you so much. Amanda, honestly, it's been fascinating. I genuinely wish I'd had something like separate space when I can go through it, because it's honestly, it sounds fabulous to be actually in it. Where can listeners find you? You're obviously on Instagram. Space, yeah, and your website is separate space, www, dot.

Amanda Bell  32:35

Separatespace got.co.uk so have a root round on the website. Do get hold of our free checklist. Come along to one of our webinars, follow us on Instagram, and if you have questions, you know, get in touch, and

Sarah Elizabeth  32:52

people can sign up to your newsletter from the website. Can't they? Brilliant? Thank you so much, Amanda. I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Amanda Bell  33:01

Thank you lovely to lovely to be on the podcast. Really appreciate it.

Sarah Elizabeth  33:05

Thank you.