EP64 When Your Ex Turns the World Against You: Part 2 - Manipulation of the Kids (Parental Alienation)

Divorce can feel like a battlefield, but nothing cuts deeper than when an ex manipulates your own children to turn them against you.

In this follow-up episode of The Divorce Chapter, we’re tackling one of the most painful and complex issues in high-conflict divorces—when your ex uses your own children as weapons. 

Last week, we talked about exes who manipulate family and friends. This week, we’re diving deep into the heartbreaking reality of parental alienation.

Parental alienation is when one parent manipulates the children into rejecting, distrusting, or emotionally distancing themselves from the other parent. 

This episode breaks down what parental alienation looks like, the emotional damage it causes, and how to navigate the devastating toll it takes on you and your relationship with your kids—whether they’re young children or adults.

I share insights on:

🚸Recognising subtle and overt manipulation tactics that your ex might use to create loyalty conflicts.

🚸How younger children and adult children experience and internalise alienation differently, and how each age group may react.

🚸Practical strategies for rebuilding trust with your children, staying consistent in your love, and finding ways to counteract the alienation.

If you’re dealing with an ex who’s working to turn your own children against you, this episode is a must have for crucial advice on protecting your relationship with your kids, and most importantly, maintaining your own mental and emotional health. 

I’d love to hear what you think….. If you find the episode helpful, it would mean the world to me if you left a review or shared it with someone who might need it. 💖

Until next week please take care of you, and sending you loads of love,

Sarah x

🌸

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Chapters

• 0:00 The Sh*t that lingers long after the ink is dry
• 2:40 When the Flying Monkeys are the kids - Parental Alienation
• 5:45 What does Parental Alienation look like?
• 8:19 What happens for Younger Kids
• 10:55 How to Manage Parental Alienation with Younger Children
• 14:45 What about when the kids are grown up?
• 19:33 How Parental Alienation presents in Adult Children
• 23:23 Managing Parental Alienation with Adult Kids
• 27:42 Being the Lighthouse in the Sh*tstorm
• 30:55 Taking Care of You too

Transcript

00:00

Hello and welcome to the divorce chapter podcast with me, your host, Sarah Elizabeth, this is a pod where we aim to give you all the tools you need to build your new life after a divorce shitshow, because sometimes there's the super hard shit that lingers on affecting us long after the inks dry on the legal paperwork, right? The issues that really trouble us. And today we're going to be talking about one such area of difficulty, what happens when your ex doesn't just leave you, they take your children with them? Maybe not physically, but emotionally. Whether the kids are still young or already adults, what's known as parental alienation, can break down your relationship with your children, leaving you feeling even more isolated and completely fucking heartbroken. Right? Last week, in part one, we looked at when it's wider family and friends that the ex recruits to their army to fight against you. This Week in part two, we're going to look at when it's the kids they use as pawns, the painful, often hidden world of parental alienation, what it looks like, how it happens, and most importantly, what you can do to start to reconnect with your children.

01:40

So what is parental alienation? Well, it's when one parent manipulates the child or children into rejecting or distancing themselves from the other parent. It's a form of emotional abuse in and of itself, and can happen, especially in high conflict divorces, where one parent is intent on maintaining control or punishing the other parent in some way. And it's so goddamn important to be aware of this shit, because this really does affect children of all ages and stages and can have some seriously long, lasting impacts on both the parent and the child, right? It's the emotional toll it takes, not only on the targeted parent, but also on the children who are likely completely unaware they're being manipulated by someone they love and trust. And I talked last week in part one about flying monkeys and how the ex recruits these enablers to do their dirty work for them. Do go back and listen to that episode if you need an overview of flying monkeys. But as a refresher, they're known as such as a nod to the Wizard of Oz, where the Wicked Witch got the flying monkeys fighting her cause while she just sat back and watched. And in this context, the ex just sits back and spreads their bullshit lies and manipulation and sends these people into battle for them, and we went through last week what that looks like when it's friends and family who are the flying monkeys. But honestly, one of the most heartbreaking forms of manipulation is when your own children are used as the flying monkeys, these mini people, or even adult mini yous who were created in love and now being betrayed by one of the two people who's supposed to love them most in the world. Except now the ex's hatred of you seems to far outweigh any love they have for the kids, and that's what parental alienation is. It's where the ex manipulates the children into taking sides, often turning them against you in the process. And parental alienation happens when one parent uses various different forms of manipulation to turn the child against the other parent you and that can include the shit that you've experienced from them as well, like lies, the gas lighting, the guilt, the fear based tactics, a narcissist ex particularly uses subtle, sometimes not so subtle, tactics to Create a rift between you and the children. 

04:41

Now that might look like direct denigration of you, whether the ex actively bad mouths you telling them how horrible you are to him, putting you in the bad cop position when they're good cop. This Is all your fault, and poor them is so hurtand so upset, so they frame you as the villain in this divorce story, even if they caused the end of the fucking marriage. Narcissists are excellent at distorting facts, telling half truths or even completely fabricating stories to fit their narrative. Master manipulators. They could play the victim, where they act as if they're the one who's been wronged, getting the kid to feel sympathy for them, like they're an Oscar winning movie star. It might be emotional blackmail creating a loyalty conflict in the child. If you loved me, you would dot, dot, dot, type of shit they can over share details of the divorce or just paint you as the unreasonable parent to win the child's loyalty. They might even withhold affection from the child, or reward or punish the kid based on how they're behaving with either them or with you, and the alienating parent might use subtle or other tactics like bad mouthing, guilt tripping, manipulating the kids to believe the other parent doesn't care about them, or they're responsible for the divorce, because it can't possibly be the ex can it? Undermine the other parent's authority or love, give children misinformation about the divorce or the other parent? Imagine a tug of war, right? But instead of a rope, the children are the ones being pulled. The alienating parent pulls harder, using emotional manipulation to drag the children further and further and further away from the targeted parent. Alienation isn't just damaging for the targeted parent. It screws the child's emotional development, self esteem, ability to trust and younger children might internalise that guilt, while older kids or adult kids might just feel really fucking confused and resentful.

07:18

So let's talk a bit particularly about parental alienation in younger children. For for them, for younger kids, parental alienation can be extremely confusing. They might feel conflicted about their loyalty to both parents, or they might begin to internalise the negative things being said about you, the alienated parent. They just don't understand. Their attachment has been built to love and trust both parents, so they don't question if one parent now says something that isn't true or completely different. They might know it in their bodies, their little bodies, they feel it. They know something doesn't quite add up, but they've got this parent who they love and they trust, telling them otherwise, it's basically gaslighting them, making them doubt what they see and feel. And as a result, younger children going through this shit will often experience low self esteem. They'll have difficulty trusting others. They might have emotional distress or anxiety or depression. It's fucked up when it's the parent that's causing this, the parent who's supposed to protect them, is actively fucking damaging them.So how might it show up in younger children? Well, there might be behavioural changes. That's usually the the way it starts with the younger kids. Children who are being alienated might suddenly start acting out when they're with you, become uncharacteristically distant, or they might repeat negative things they've been told about you. They're resistant to you. They might start pushing against the boundaries, pushing against the rules. They might start repeating the negative shit they've heard about you. Sometimes kids may even start rejecting you, outright, blatantly rejecting you, refusing to visit, you, talk to you, even acknowledge your role in their lives. Think of it like a mirror, like before the alienation the child reflected back the love and relationship they shared with both parents. But after alienation, that mirror becomes distorted, reflecting only what the alienating parent wants them to see, anger, resentment, confusion. It's like one of those fucked up mirrors at the Fun Fair only it ain't fun. It's super goddamn hard.

09:53

So how do you manage parental alienation with younger children? Oh my god, it's so hard. God, but number one, and as fucking difficult as it is, try and stay calm and consistent, it's crucial, really, really important, not to retaliate, not to speak negatively about the ex who's doing this, especially in front of the children. I get it. I get it. It goes against instincts as you want to protect yourself and your kids. But this can actually reinforce the alienation. It like feeds into their narrative of you as the bad guy in this shit show. So try to avoid mirroring their negative behavior, and instead, try to focus on staying calm and being consistent in your love and your presence for your kids. If you can consistently demonstrate warmth and patience and empathy, what that does is it shows your child a healthy version of unconditional love. It shows them, by role modeling who it is, that they can actually trust the ex is showing you that they hate you more than they love your kids. Your job is to show that you love your child more than any hate for him doing this, which is really goddamn hard, I know I hear it. I get it. If your child is pulling away, don't force them to talk or spend time with you if they don't want to. If your child refuses to talk about the divorce, that's okay. Let them come to you when they're ready and when they are ready. Give them a safe space when they say things like Dad said you don't love me or some other bullshit. Try not to react defensively, acknowledge their feelings, give them some gentle truths. But this is their childhood. We can't destroy them no matter what the ex is doing or saying, right? Look for the small, positive moments to reconnect. A great ones driving. You know, when I used to drive kids in my social work role, it was the best time to have non confrontational conversations. They don't have to make eye contact with you, which for them, might just give them to security to open up. I used to get so much out of kids when I was driving them because it's just far less confrontational, right? Play their favorite games, engage in activities that they enjoy. If you've got any habits or routines you do with them, carry on doing it. Or if you haven't, maybe you could start one like a weekly movie night or something. Just be there. Show up for events, send them notes, just generally, be consistent. Be there because your presence is honestly the best rebuttal to their lies and bullshit, to the ex and sometimes, just sometimes, parental alienation does need intervention from a therapist or a counselor, because family therapy is something that can provide a really neutral space for the kid to express their feelings begin to heal the relationships always, always, always focus on the child, not the conflict, and

13:46

what about when the kids are all grown up? Because, yes, parental alienation can still apply when it involves adult children being manipulated by the ex, whilst traditional parental alienation in the courts and all of that is is obviously associated with younger children, because that's why they're in court. But the dynamics of manipulation and control can go on well into adulthood. Even though adult children are independent, or at least have more independence, they're not immune to manipulation, especially if the actor's been playing the long game, they might have been planting the seeds of alienation years before and created, almost like the roots, the foundation of resentment or mistrust. And adult children are often manipulated through guilt, like being told they need to protect their ex or or that the kids owe the ex loyalty in some way, because of, I don't know, past sacrifices or some other bullshit. There's also this bizarre thing that I've only recently heard about, called incestuous. Dating or emotional incest, as it's also known, it's fucked up in the context of parental alienation, incestuous dating or emotional incest can be a really fucking troubling dynamic where a parent often unconsciously forms almost a relationship with an adult child that mimics the emotional intensity of a romantic partnership, and that can happen, particularly in high conflict divorces, especially if one parent is alienating the kid from the other, like a golden child scenario, the parent the Ex picks out one of the kids as the chosen one, the favorite, which adds an even more fucked up dynamic for the other kids. And signs of this incestuous dating or emotional incest in a parent child relationship typically look like blurred boundaries and a role reversal, where the child is treated more like a partner than a son or daughter. So it might look like excessive emotional dependence, where the parent relies on the child for emotional support that would typically come from an adult partner, like including sharing intimate or private thoughts and feelings. It might be shit like sending them little, almost love notes or taking them out on a special day. I know it's fucked up, and the alienating parent the ex might disregard normal parent child boundaries, and they expect loyalty, attention, almost prioritization over other relationships in the child's life, even friendships or their own romantic partners. They'll get jealous and possessive if the kid does spend time with others, or, heaven forbid, pursue their own relationships, and sometimes they'll end up the ex will use guilt to keep the child close. They might expect the child to fulfill their emotional needs, listen to their problems, or take sides in the conflict with you. They might confide in them shit like romantic, financial, personal shit that's totally inappropriate or uncomfortable to share with their kid, even if they are a grown up kids, because it just creates this emotional burden. And these dynamics can be so psychologically damaging as they put the kid, the adult kid, in a position of totally inappropriate responsibility, which leads to their own confusion, their own guilt, as well as possibly difficulty forming their own healthy adult relationships. And breaking free from that type of enmeshment, means that they need to redefine boundaries as well as understand that they've got the right to build their life independently without fulfilling the other parent's emotional needs. And when an ex manipulates an adult child into becoming a confidant or replacement partner, it creates such an unhealthy dependence and further, essentially forces the kid into taking sides against you. With the ex,

18:31

Imagine you're building a bridge to your adult children. You're trying desperately to still maintain a loving, supportive relationship despite the devils still be mum, but on the other side, your ex is setting fire to the planks that's building the bridge, trying their utmost to destroy that connection. You're left trying to save a bridge while the kids are standing in the middle, confused, torn between two worlds. There's so much in terms of psychology and dynamics for kids and their parents, irrespective of their age, they're probably going to feel super conflicted about maintaining relationships with both parents. They might feel ridiculously guilty for siding with one parent, even if they know something's wrong. And if that manipulation has started at a younger age, it's likely to bring up all manner of unresolved shit for them as well. So they might start avoiding contact with you as the alienated parent, citing their own reasons, but those reasons often echo the ex's narrative. They're like the ex's puppet, or they might keep superficial relationships with you, but avoid a deeper emotional connection because they fear confrontation or backlash from the ex. Think of it like a fog that clouds their judgment, even though adult children are more. And capable of making their own decisions, thinking for themselves. The manipulative tactics of the ex cost a long, long, long shadow totally obscures their ability to see them clearly, see you clearly, even, and in the case of adult children and parental alienation. More generally, the ex might use emotional black male guilt or continued misinformation to influence the kids view of you, and the difference is that adult children, whilst again, let's say they're more independent, they still will struggle with conflicted loyalties, family dynamics and the emotional weight, weight, the burden of having to choose sides they'll just want to keep the peace.And that kind of alienation can be so goddamn subtle and often relies on those routes that we talked about, but the tactics are really similar to those used with younger kids, and the challenges here are different to younger kids, because adult children have more autonomy and critical thinking skills, but the manipulation can still be so effective, especially like I said, when it's tied to unresolved childhood dynamics or emotional dependency, and if they have been the golden child in childhood too, it's not likely that those roles and identities are going to change Easily. Adult kids may not be as susceptible to overt alienation, but can still be affected by those loyalty conflicts and the guilt. So what might that look like to you in adult kids, again, behavioural changes, they might resist contact or communication with you, they might avoid certain topics if they do see you, they might seem to have a complete personality transplant after too much time with the ex, they might be passively hostile with you. They might pull away without any explanation whatsoever.

22:22

So how do you manage this with adult kids? Well, first up, open the lines of communication, and I know it's really hard, but start by acknowledging how difficult the situation has been for your kid.Create a safe space for them to talk without fear of judgment or criticism or snidely comments or whatever, avoid the temptation to prove yourself or point fingers at the ex. I know it's so so tempting, but they're not going to be able to take it on board. So instead, it's about focusing on listening. So you could say something like, I understand this situation has been really hard for you, and I want you to know I'm here for whenever you want to talk, try and initiate open judgment, free conversations about their feelings, if they want to do it, if they want to talk, try and talk through any grievances they may have, and clarify misunderstandings, but gently, this is still their other parent as well that you're talking about. They still have that loyalty. So if they mention shit that the other parents said, try and respond with empathy rather than defensiveness. I get it's hard, I know, but try, try, try remind them subtly they don't have to take sides. It's natural to want to correct the record. Defend yourself when your kids are repeating shit your ex has told them, but responding with anger or defensiveness can just make things worse. Children, however old they are, do not want to feel like they're in the middle of a war zone. So instead of trying to win them back by bad mouthing the ex. Focus on maintaining your calm and consistent presence, reminding them that your mum, no matter what it might mean, ranting about until your mate or when you get home, or whatever, but in front of them, around them, try and just stay calm, frame any conversations with them around supporting them rather than challenging them, acknowledge it's okay for them to love those parents and that loyalty doesn't have to mean conflict and rebuilding the relationship with an adult child.Who has been alienated can take a shitload of time. It can real time, and it's really hard, because so important to remain patient. Allow them to come to their own conclusions, make up their own minds. They will in the end, don't give up on maintaining regular contact. In the meantime, even if they initially resist, adult kids often have got their own reasons for keeping their distance now, whether it's because of the manipulation or because of their own unresolved feelings, because they can't just deal with it, just respect those boundaries, but also make sure that they know you're available when they are ready.If your adult kid is open to it, family counseling is another valuable tool to help because it allows for that open communication in a controlled environment and helps both of you work through unresolved shit. But you know, it's whether they want to, it's whether you want to.

26:02

And you know, whatever age they are, adults, younger kids, whatever, in the middle, it's truly devastating to see your kids who once loved and trusted you pulling away. And I get it may feel like a betrayal, especially if the ex has also betrayed you and all but it's so important to understand that your children are not willingly betraying you, even if it feels like it, they are just caught up in the web of manipulation from the ex one that you may well have been caught up in yourself before the divorce. Show kids look to their parents for safety and guidance, so when one parent manipulates them against the other, they are going to experience confusion, fear, guilt.They might feel unduly pressured to take sides or behave in ways that go completely against their own personalities or their own emotions simply to appease the ex, the narcissistic parent, particularly you're the lighthouse in the shitstorm, no matter how much the waves crash against you, and they will, whether those waves are the ex's manipulations or the kids behavior as a result, it will come crashing against you, and your job is to remain steady, guiding them with your unwavering love and support. Your kids are victims in this situation as well, and it's important to understand that they're not choosing to hurt you.It's often simply a reaction to the narrative that they've been fed by your ex. And when the kids say something hurtful, try not to take it personally and try to understand where they're coming from and who it's coming from, one of the most important things you can do is continue to be present in your kids lives, even if they push you away, it's going to be painful, but consistency is key. Over time, they will say that your love for them isn't conditional. It's not based on manipulation. It's pure love. And just like you've now seen the other side of your ex, unfortunately, they're probably going to end up seeing it and all, and they'll need to know that you're still there for them when it happens.Think of the relationship is a bit like a plant that's been neglected. It's going to take time to grow strong again, but with care and attention and patience, it can bloom again.Your kids may be used as pawns in your ex's game, but remember, they're not your enemy. He might be, but they're not. Stay calm, steady, loving. Be the safe haven they can come back to when they're ready to see the truth. It's going to take time. It will but by standing firm and continuing to show up,you'll give them the foundation they need to hopefully break free from the manipulation,

29:18

but managing alienation from your kids can be so exhausting. So do also take care of your own emotional well being, whether that's for your own support squad, for your inner circle, through self care, whatever you know what's for you to get you in a good mental space. Because it, you know, it is a toll. It's an emotional toll being alienated from your kids, and that can end up with you being depressed, feeling helpless, anger, so you've got to prioritize your own mental health as well, right? Parental alienation is one of the most painful aspects of divorce, but it's important to remember it's not the. End of the story, whether your kids are young or grown up, you've got the power to slowly rebuild those relationships,staying consistent, staying loving, most of all, staying patientin time. The truth has got a way of shining through the fog. You know,I get it's super hard. I think one of the hardest things ever.Parenting is generally one of the hardest jobs. And I always think that each stage, anyway, without divorce, it comes with different challenges. You know, like when they're babies, they're entirely dependent on you, 24/7 and that's physically exhausting. And then gradually, as the physical shit eases, the emotional shit takes over. It's hard parenting, especially adult kids. It's really hard parenting adult kids, I think, at the better times without a narcissistic Dick of an ex phone in. But I do hope that this episode has helped you at least a little bit, if it's something you're facing for your own divorce show,and if you do need any more support with navigating this shit, please do come and think about joining the divorce book club at the point of this episode coming out will be about choosing December's book. And these are all books related to divorce or relationship issues or general personal development. And we do a book a month. It can be on anything. You know, if the members say they want a particular subject, like pointer alienation, I'm here for it for 10 of a month, you get a private podcast episode from me With each chapter of the book, with all the pertinent bits of the chapter, plus insights, plus stories and all the Goths, plus a growing community of women to help share this show with what more could you want? My loves. So until then, as always, I'd love it if you could write and review the pod and help a girl out over it. You know, thank you and thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening. As always, both this week's and last week's episodes were based on a request from a listener. So I'm always open to ideas as well, and all the links for everything's in the show notes to work with me, so I will be back in your beautiful rebirth again next week, with so much love from me,